Should I care about your conviction? — Banno

Yes because it's proof TGW is being convincing :P

The post-truth era of Trump is just what Nietzsche predicted

One fool will follow the other.

Personally I'm quite pro-Trump tbh (not my ideal President, but preferable over pretty much all the other Democratic candidates that were available - among the Republicans maybe he wasn't my top choice) :-O

One fool will follow the other. — Banno

I like being the fool! :D

In fact - I think this "post-truth" is a liberal meme to rationalise their defeat, and avoid coming to terms with the fact that they (along with all their experts) are living a fantasy that they have been making themselves by blinding themselves from reality. "Post-truth" is what they use, saying "we have the truth, but reality isn't following us, thus reality has moved into 'post-truth'" - it's a way for them to go on clinging to fantasy and la-la land.

That's two distinct approaches to justification, not two distinct uses of truth.

Truth that is there despite what you say or think about it, would be objective truth.

In light of the fact that all humans experience the world through their senses and the resulting subjective interpretation of what they perceive through their senses, how is objective truth even possible in the first place? — hunterkf5732

Prefixing objective only serves to bring in confusion. The distinction between objective and subjective truth is either incoherent or amounts to no more than the distinction between stating the very same thing in the first person or the third person.

As if we could only ever speak in the first person.

In fact - I think this "post-truth" is a liberal meme to rationalise their defeat, and avoid coming to terms with the fact that they (along with all their experts) are living a fantasy that they have been making themselves by blinding themselves from reality. "Post-truth" is what they use, saying "we have the truth, but reality isn't following us, thus reality has moved into 'post-truth'" - it's a way for them to go on clinging to fantasy and la-la land. — Agustino

Well, it's a liberal meme in that, as I pointed out in the OP, post-truth dialogue is unsustainable, and so post-truth politics must eventually fail. The phrase is a rhetorical device to emphasis the inconsistency of some certain politics.

Reality cannot be post-truth, of course.

Reality cannot be post-truth, of course. — Banno

There's an interesting slippage of meaning, from ...

"Reality cannot be post-truth, of course." is true.

to...

Reality is the truth.

Statements are true in virtue of conforming to reality, v truth is the reality to which true statements conform.

(Mutters something about the reification of conformity.)

truth is the reality to which true statements conform. — unenlightened

This would be a reification of truth, rather than of conformity?

This would be a reification of truth, rather than of conformity? — Banno

Well on one interpretation, this is the reification: "Reality cannot be post-truth, of course."

Knowing you, I think you mean that truth does not apply to reality, but to statements, but it it is a common usage to say that 'the truth is what is the case.' and that is the slide of meaning that allows 'post truth' a purchase; reality being the noumenon and so inaccessible and so on.

Well, it's a liberal meme in that, as I pointed out in the OP, post-truth dialogue is unsustainable, and so post-truth politics must eventually fail. The phrase is a rhetorical device to emphasis the inconsistency of some certain politics. — Banno

But I don't think Trump's politics for that matter are "post-truth". They do value truth - a different truth than the liberals value, that's all. Regarding climate change (on which I disagree with Trump for example) they are valuing a different kind of truth - economic gain and prosperity, and because they value this truth, they suppress the truth of global warming and call it a falsity - this is merely rhetoric to garner support for one truth instead of the other.

Because I make accurate observations about people like A.C. Grayling who make public fools of themselves. You should induce something about the high quality of my general opinions.

It's not possible that any critical thought went into what Grayling said, because you can hear what he said on any radio station.

your observation amounted to "Grayling sucks". Hardly quality critique.

If his points were good, or had thought put into them, wouldn't they show some distinctive mark of his having thought about them? But literally everything he says has been said often in many other places in public, in the form of talking points of a broad political cluster.

It stands to reason that he said these things because he heard them and regurgitated them, and for no other reason.

No?

But literally everything he says has been said often in many other places in public, in the form of talking points of a broad political cluster.

It really does read like an impressionistic mash-up of cliche talking points.

"But all you need now is an iPhone. Everyone can publish their opinion."

"The world changed after 2008"

"The whole post-truth phenomenon is about, 'My opinion is worth more than the facts.' It's about how I feel about things. It's terribly narcissistic. "

"There are some really uncomfortable parallels with the 1930s"


Doesn't mean he's wrong, necessarily, just means he doesn't have much to offer in the way of insight.

The post-truth era of Trump is just what Nietzsche predicted. — Headline

Fake News

In light ofthe fact that all humans experience the world through their senses and the resulting subjective interpretation of what they perceive through their senses, how is objective truth even possible in the first place? — hunterkf5732

Is this a "fact," or just your interpretation? Dismissing this as a mere smartass reply won't work - if you can't get around the simple smartass reply, then the position wasn't any good to begin with.

Follow your aptitudes.

This slanging match between 'the media' and the odious troll who is Drumpf's 'media hack' regarding the size of the inauguration crowd, is a perfect example of what passes for political commentary in Drumpf's 'post-truth' world; talking of 'alternative facts'.

Let the pictures speak for themselves:

https://cfmedia.deadline.com/2017/01/inauguration-crowd.jpg?w=605&h=810

Drumpf's 'post-truth' world; — Wayfarer

:-d

Here, I'm sure this OP will resonate:

Today’s passive, unhappy Americans sat on their couches and chose a strutting TV clown to save us.

What they have done is a desecration, a foolish and vindictive act of vandalism, by which they betrayed all the best and most valiant labors of our ancestors. We don’t want to accept this, because we cannot accept that the people, at least in the long run of things, can be wrong in our American democracy. But they can be wrong, just like any people, anywhere. And until we do accept this abject failure of both our system and ourselves, there is no hope for our redemption.

A couple of days after the election I watched on CNN as red-faced Russian apparatchiks in Moscow toasted one another on their great success. “Hurrah!” I thought. “No more American exceptionalism! We have joined up with the drunken idiot of history!” Once Russians, too, and especially Russian writers, were certain that there was a special destiny for the Russian soul. But a century of disastrous choices and their consequences seems to have disillusioned them. They have so much to teach us.

The America we lost when Trump won was a liberal fantasy which would have been wiped off the face of the Earth in a few decades by the infantilism of the Clintons and their cronies. Trump saved America, as much as America can be saved at this juncture. Trump is right - after Bush and Obama America isn't great anymore.

Indeed, every day I read these liberal tears I am rejoicing. What a sham, how utterly foolish some people can be unaware that:

Heaven and Earth are impartial;
They see the ten thousand things as straw dogs.
The wise are impartial;
They see the people as straw dogs. — DaoDeJing

>:O

These guys actually thought they lived in a world of pink flying unicorns >:O - I mean can you believe that?

The America we lost when Trump won was a liberal fantasy which would have been wiped off the face of the Earth in a few decades by the infantilism of the Clintons and their cronies. Trump saved America, as much as America can be saved at this juncture. Trump is right - after Bush and Obama America isn't great anymore. — Agustino

Do you really believe this? That's straight up propaganda. It's not remotely accurate. It's just right wing talking points.

Do you really believe this? That's straight up propaganda. It's not remotely real. — Marchesk

:-}

No it is the truth. Rampant liberalism/progressivism, hedonism, stupid decisions and leadership have utterly destroyed America's greatness. Trump is America's last hope - really and truthfully now. And all this is because he's the only one who has the pragmatism that it takes to save America. As I said, America's interest diverges at this juncture from the interests of its people.

But seriously, everyday I read the news and I'm loving it! I've never loved it so much, so many retarded liberal tears! >:O I mean can you believe that these people thought that the world is a fantasy? I mean they thought they could go on and on in their stupidity, hedonism, total ignorance of virtue and pragmatism, driven purely by an empty and unsound progressive ideology based on an all extensive compassion for everyone and everything including that which is rotten? They actually think the world can work and exist in that state - that to me is the height of insanity - the slumber of reason.

Rampant liberalism/progressivism, hedonism, stupid decisions and leadership have utterly destroyed America's greatness. — Agustino

What greatness was destroyed?

Trump is America's last hope - really and truthfully now. — Agustino

Last hope for what?

And all this is because he's the only one who has the pragmatism that it takes to save America. — Agustino

Save America from what? Cheap Chinese goods? Evil climate scientists? Below minimum wage migrant labor?

As I said, America's interest diverge at this juncture from the interests of its people. — Agustino

How so? Is a New York billionaire going to save the interests of the people?