No I encounter bad faith arguments, and... — counterpunch

You have an infinite supply of chips on your shoulder.

I'm worried about the left wing, post modernist, politically correct, anti-capitalist assault on western civilisation. — counterpunch

Oh, suffer. Poor you.

If God is with you, who can be against you?!

I think the greatest strength of american leftism has been it's ability to teach love.

That's why today's leftists are so annoying. It's the heights that they've descended from.

Yes, I'm perfectly well aware of the sweeping assumptions I make about people here - but those people are quite free to refute those accusations, and explain what they really believe, which is my purpose in doing so. I'm being deliberately provocative with people being insufficiently honest. — counterpunch

When Patrick Jane or Gregory House do that, it's fun to watch and they solve cases and figure out the right diagnosis.
But when real people do it, it just means they're jerks. And nothing good comes out of it.

The data shows that of the 1000 deaths, that's 0.1% of all arrests, 32% were black and 42% were white. — counterpunch

Yes, you and others keep pushing this line, then you receive the obvious response -- that this isn't about deaths during arrests, this is about police shooting unsuspecting black men in the back or crushing the life out of them when they're already restrained and pose no danger --, you ignore it, then go back to regurgitating the same vomit. I know this counts for clever with the racist crowd, but it doesn't cut the mustard elsewhere. I don't think you'll find anyone here who'd hold it against a police officer for shooting in defence of self, a partner, or civilians. You might find many who dislike the police shooting to kill in order to catch a criminal, but that's about American culture generally, not it's racist culture specifically. Pretending the dialogue is about something else is not smart.

Let me ask you a question. Who invented the Covid vaccine, and who's going to pay for the rest of the world to get it if the WHO have their way? — counterpunch

I can well imagine you not getting your head around the idea that someone who invented a vaccine for a global pandemic wouldn't just keep it for their in-group.

Science is also international. Just because you learn it in the English-speaking west, doesn't mean it came from the English-speaking West. As hard as this will be for you to swallow, scientists typically believe that they do what they do for humanity, not for straight white English-speaking men. Crazy, huh?

So you're not trying to convert people. You're just spitting out the same blerbs over and over, unable to wake up from it. Still, it's more fun to talk to you than your counterparts, I will say that. — frank

I have no counterparts. I am fiercely intellectually independent. Western capitalism invented the Covid vaccine. I'm not sure what skin colour the actual scientists had. Western societies are multi-cultural societies, and science itself has a somewhat global outlook, so they could have been any skin colour. It's not a race thing. But it is a Western civilisation thing.

The thing I care most about is a sustainable future for humankind, and I don't believe that can be achieved - other than by capitalism. Capitalism has the knowledge, the skills, the technology, the human resources, the industrial capacity and so on, to do what needs to be done. Further, it has commerce, as a basis to negotiate these matters between people's. If there's any chance of a sustainable future - it will be western capitalism that does it, like it was western capitalism that invented the vaccine and is expected to pay for the rest of the world to receive it.

So the left's multi-pronged assault on objective reality, morality, truth, human nature, reason, science, language, and social progress - in terms of race, gender, law and order, free speech a fair trial and on and on and on, all pitched against western civilisation does indeed invoke:

the Ghost of Doom lurking on the horizon. — frank

I simply don't buy the idea that universities are bastions of marxism, as some say. It's usually bullshit — ssu

It is bullshit. Marxism is basically dead outside of philosophy and economics. Never met a Marxist scientist in my life. Plenty critical of unconstrained capitalism though, as well as pro environmental action, pro equity, etc.

Well, yes it is. It's certainly not true that everyone is in every position of power all the time. That would be nonsensical. — Kenosha Kid

So, to go back to where this tangent started from:

Since I don't hold any position of power, it's irrelevant what biases I may hold in regard to others, as long as those biases aren't to my disadvantage. — baker

When a person is not in a position of power, does it make sense or is it economical to retain biases that aren't to one's disadvantage?

The thing I care most about is a sustainable future for humankind, and I don't believe that can be achieved - other than by capitalism. — counterpunch

I sort of agree with that. If we collapse in on ourselves as anti-technology people would like us to, we'll miss a chance to save civilization from climate change, specifically climate volatility. (I'm guessing you don't believe in climate change, white supremacists usually don't.)

Worrying about it won't really help anything, though. If civilization survives, great. If it doesn't, it had a good run. Maybe it will show up again 10,000 years from now.

Well, yes it is. It's certainly not true that everyone is in every position of power all the time. That would be nonsensical.
— Kenosha Kid

When a person is not in a position of power, does it make sense or is it economical to retain biases that aren't to one's disadvantage? — baker

I don't think you can have read that right.

I'm saying that when people are in disadvantaged positions, there is, to say the least, no incentive to change their minds or to overcome their cognitive biases.
Do you disagree?

You have an infinite supply of chips on your shoulder. — baker

Oh, suffer. Poor you.
If God is with you, who can be against you?! — baker

When Patrick Jane or Gregory House do that, it's fun to watch and they solve cases and figure out the right diagnosis. But when real people do it, it just means they're jerks. And nothing good comes out of it. — baker

Just thought I'd collect all your posts in one place that I can take them in. Were I a critic I should say that they lack wit, lack insight, and lack explanatory power. It would be as good, or better had they never been written.

It sucks to be made to drink your own poison, doesn't it.

I'm saying that when people are in disadvantaged positions, there is, to say the least, no incentive to change their minds or to overcome their cognitive biases.
Do you disagree? — baker

Yes, for all the above reasons. I mean, maybe there's some unfortunate maximally disadvantaged edge case, but generally, yes. Being economically disadvantaged, for instance, is no barrier to treating your neighbour better.

Being economically disadvantaged, for instance, is no barrier to treating your neighbour better. — Kenosha Kid

Or so liberal common sense would have us believe.

But IRL, no good deed goes unpunished. What's the point of having one's mind operate by the humanist standards of secular academia, if that makes one a loser?

There you go with the stereotyping. It's okay when you do it, huh? I do believe in climate change, and I'm not white supremacist. But I am pro-Western. We got a lot right. Our societies are prosperous and relatively just. We invented almost everything - scientific and industrial revolutions, through to modern democracy and capitalism. Medical science, the internal combustion engine, the computer, the internet.

I blame much on the weather - it's cold a lot of the time, and so we pursue indoor sports like reading books. And there's the relative proximity of England, France, Germany, Italy, Spain etc, and the competition of ideas, art, commerce, philosophy, music - and so on, that occurred between them over hundreds of years.

It's not racist to be proud of the contributions of western civilisation to the world; nor expect that, if there's a viable future, it will be the West that makes it happen. So yes, I object to post modernist, politically correct, white guilt ridden, craven left twits - attacking our civilisation, in their typically myopic, post truth, falsely self righteous manner.

I'm not white supremacist. — counterpunch

I understand why you want to obscure it. You guys are a dying breed. Back in the day there was nothing odd about it.

These days you have to choose your words carefully. Is that frustrating?

I understand why you want to obscure it. You guys are a dying breed. Back in the day there was nothing odd about it. These days you have to choose your words carefully. is that frustrating? — frank

I'm not going to rise to your provocation. I've spoken honestly, and explained my position eloquently. Your repeated assertions of racism are because you can't deny what I've said or defend your own dishonest position. Think about this - anti biotics alone have saved more lives that were lost in all the wars - ever! Thank you Sir Alexander Fleming FRS FRSE FRCS. And hurrah for western medicine and science in general.

defend your own dishonest position. — counterpunch

What do you think my dishonest position is?

What do you think my dishonest position is? — frank

Are not you better placed to tell me, than I am to tell you - to what degree you identify with the ideas I've criticised? You haven't explained, but you have acted defensively and offensively - in response to these criticisms. You're displaying classic signs of left wing fragility!

It is bullshit. Marxism is basically dead outside of philosophy and economics. Never met a Marxist scientist in my life. Plenty critical of unconstrained capitalism though, as well as pro environmental action, pro equity, etc. — Kenosha Kid

And there are plenty of conservatives too that are critical of unconstrained capitalism, pro environment and pro equity, actually. At least here.

But so true. I did have one economics teacher who was a Marxist. He did give us one whole lecture on Marx when we were studying economic history (other 19th Century economist got only a part of a lecture). I also studied economic history and thought that the student were OK (even if the social history students were strange), until I once went to the homepages of the economic history students and found a picture of Marx & Lenin there with the caption that the students were "A small group of Marxists that are darn proud to be so". I found it a bit puzzling and then asked a girl at work (that had also studied there at the same time) about what was with the homepages. She replied "Oh yeah, I found it very strange too."

You're displaying classic signs of left wing fragility! — counterpunch

Nah. Nihilist to the bones.

Nah. Nihilist to the bones. — frank

Oh, you are? Then get your entertainment elsewhere. If you don't care about any of this all you're doing is amusing yourself at my expense, and I resent it.

Oh, you are? Then get your entertainment elsewhere. If you don't care about any of this all you're doing is amusing yourself at my expense, and I resent it. — counterpunch

:rofl:

And there are plenty of conservatives too that are critical of unconstrained capitalism, pro environment and pro equity, actually. At least here. — ssu

Yes, I think it's the peculiarity of the English-speaking right that social conservativism, social order theories, economic liberalism, traditionalism, some faux Christianity, post-truth, and short-termism inevitably coalesce.

The defence say he wasn't killed. The defence say he overdosed. The autopsies are evidence - the value of which is yet to be determined by the jury. Saying he was killed is therefore, to assume guilt, and to broadcast an assumption of guilt may prejudice the trial. — counterpunch

The only two experts currently available to the BBC on the matter of his cause of death both concluded he was killed. In such circumstances the BBC are well within their journalistic impartiality to state the conclusion of the sum total of expert opinion at the time. It is not their responsibility to preempt any possible defence. You're confusing impartiality with scepticism. Journalist need not reserve judgement until 100% certain, they only need reasonable grounds to draw the conclusions they draw. The conclusion of the only two medical experts involved are reasonable grounds.

If a jury convict, how does the further opinion of twelve members of the public add some magic level of certainty to the situation? The jurisprudential means of securing conviction and the journalistic standards of impartiality are not the same, nor even much related, and for good reason.

I understand why you want to obscure it. — frank

He's just a supremacist, not specifically a white supremacist. Right-wingers tend to be authoritarian, supremacist: "I know and others don't know. I am honest, others are not. I see things as they really are, others do not. I am the arbiter of other people's reality."

He's just a supremacist, not specifically a white supremacist. — baker

His view is identical to the traditional white supremacist doctrine: white people are doomed because of the rise of non-whites. Non-whites are supposed to be inherently dangerous to western civilization.

Whether he knows he's a white supremacist, I don't know. Don't care. :kiss:

On the face of it, absent of a highly charged political atmosphere, a man was arrested, he resisted arrest - fighting off four police officers, he was restrained, and he died. He was found to have a lethal quantity of narcotics in his system.

Under normal circumstances, I suspect it would be found that there wasn't a case to answer. Under the highly politicised circumstances created by BLM - it was impossible to find that there wasn't a case to answer.

Thus, one could argue, what you call "expert opinion on the cause of death" - is a somewhat forced conclusion; and consequently, using the term 'killing' - rather than the more neutral term 'death' - is cementing a forced conclusion, a first victory in a left wing crusade to make it impossible for police to do their job.

That's really fucking vicious. Why are you trying to disgrace me? How many times do I have to tell you, race isn't an issue for me?

I am actively seeking to save HUMANKIND from extinction - and you seek to tarnish me with accusations of racism and white supremacism in favour of a failed commie dogma, you won't even admit to?

Nihilist my arse! You neo marxist, post modernist, politically correct wretch! Take it back - and knock it the fuck off. It's not right to impugn people, over and over - just because they don't drink the commie kool aid.