Or did I not make one? Whichever it is. — Judaka
We're long past the days where feminism referred solely to fighting for women's rights. — Judaka
I'm not playing a correlation game. — Judaka
No we're not. You're conflating critical theory with intersectional feminism, which is precisely the faulty logic I was talking about. — Kenosha Kid
That is precisely what your end of this argument is. Either that or you genuinely don't understand the terms you're employing.
I'm not bothered you think I'm an intersectional feminist btw. It's the dishonesty of how you got there that's of interest. — Kenosha Kid
what logic is at play there? — Judaka
What's the honest way? — Judaka
Maybe because "career women" can afford a shrink? — Benkei
1. Accuses people of being intersectional feminists based on no evidence. — Kenosha Kid
Of course, I think so too. (And not because JP said it, I figured that out on my own, living among Catholics.)Jordan Peterson's view on religion is pragmatic in a way because his entire argument was that religions have a positive impact on people and not that they're true. — TheMadFool
In my experience, many religious people know that religion is not about truth and they don't look for comfort in it. Such people don't take it seriously. But what they do take seriously with great effort is keeping up the appearance of taking it seriously. This is the taboo, the public secret.Does it make sense to endorse or promote for public consumption an outright lie because it gives people comfort or keeps them on the straight and narrow or the like? Isn't this paternalism?
intersectional feminist adjacent...? — Judaka
Yet I can also gauge a person's ideologies by how they speak on related topics, even without providing me with concrete proof, with some accuracy. — Judaka
Call me lazy or inaccurate, if you want — Judaka
You write people off with your labels and maybe you're just projecting? — Judaka
You said you don't like JP, I said JP is criticising something like ideologies based around intersectional feminism, which I see you as a part of. — Judaka
Probably.Interesting. I wonder if it is the media, internet and social media which have created this environment or just the politicisation of everything? When you put it like that, I probably should have just avoided this thread altogether. — Judaka
What are we saying here, that if I criticise a racist it's really because I'm racist? Ha. Okay. Scraping the bottom of the barrel, there. — Kenosha Kid
Your logic is that of right-wing nutjob shock jocks. — Kenosha Kid
It's sort of weird that you own up to the possibility that your terminology is misguided, but merrily stand by it nonetheless. — Kenosha Kid
Does it make sense to endorse or promote for public consumption an outright lie because it gives people comfort or keeps them on the straight and narrow or the like? — TheMadFool
Plato would say yes emphatically.
Plato was wrong about most things — Pfhorrest
Why is Plato wrong? — TheMadFool
About "noble lies" in particular? Because a false reason to do something is a bad reason to do something. If the thing the noble lie gets people to do is actually good, then there is some true reason why it is good, which is the same as to say a true reason to do so. That true reason makes the noble lie unnecessary. If there is not known a true reason, then it is not known that the thing is good, and so the ends (the good thing) can't justify the means (the lie) even if ends could justify means in general, because the ends are not actually known to be good. — Pfhorrest
Why do you think the ends don't justify the means? — TheMadFool
I think that at least those religious people from cultures where their religion has been the majority religion for a long time are ambivalent toward him. On the one hand, they of course must be outraged at him for suggesting that truth is not that important in religion. On the other hand, they know that he's right and that he's just saying out loud what they themselves have known or suspected for a long time.Jordan Peterson's take on religion won't go down well with the religious section of the population. — TheMadFool
But that condescending attitude is nothing new, religious people are used to it. You will have noticed that religious people from different religions have a kind of victim/martyr mentality in regard to outsiders anyway -- "Others are out to destroy us, humiliate us". And religious people tend to be condescending to outsiders to begin with. So it's all just business as usual.It's as if he would let faithful believe in a lie just to keep them in line. What a condescending attitude! As if the only thing keeping believers from becoming q band of criminals is religion.
Like I already pointed out on another thread here:Why bother to argue in detail about what people say when you have the easy tool of character assassination? — ssu
If, for example, I wanted to harm a person X but I do that employing only good deeds, the good deeds are usually not part of the formula that determines my moral standing; in other words, if my behavior towards X matches 2 above, I'm considered a bad person. — TheMadFool
The idea that the ends justify the means is that anything and everything is permissible in order to achieve a goal, given that the goal in question is moral. If one buys into this idea then you'll have no qualms about acting immorally if the outcome, the end result, is moral. So, for instance, you'll be willing to kill to if the resulting death had good consequences whatever they may be. — TheMadFool
Can you give an example of where an immoral act has moral consequences?On the other hand if one is opposed to the claim that the ends justify the means one would be unwilling to commit an immoral act even if it the consequences of such an act were themselves moral.
Jordan Peterson's take on religion won't go down well with the religious section of the population. It's as if he would let faithful believe in a lie just to keep them in line. What a condescending attitude! As if the only thing keeping believers from becoming q band of criminals is religion. — TheMadFool
So you, too, don't believe that the end justifies the means?Why do you think the ends don't justify the means? — TheMadFool
Think you can defend your comments about JP? — Judaka
Obviously, you do but I've listened to the guy enough for what you're saying to be serious red flags, we do not have the same standards for what is sexist and transphobic. — Judaka
it’s so whiny, it’s just enough to drive a modern person mad to listen to these suburban housewives from the late ’50s ensconced in their comfortable secure lives complaining about the fact that they’re bored because they don’t have enough opportunity. It’s like, Jesus get a hobby. For Christ’s sake
Don't fancy that socially awkward, aggressive, racist guy in your class? Tough shit, JP says women should arrange themselves to benefit men so that men don't have to control themselves. — Kenosha Kid
(On which, I can't think of a worse indictment of JP than his willful misrepresentation of one of the Columbine shooters as some existential hero, cherry-picking from his diary to avoid the vast quantity of typical violent alt-right-esque racism.) — Kenosha Kid
One of his psychotherapy patients was an alcoholic woman who, in part on account of her alcoholism, had been raped five times. JP quite proudly dismisses her testimony as unreliable. He wasn't saying that men didn't pick her up when she was blotto, just suggests that that doesn't constitute rape. — Kenosha Kid
As for the idea of equality between women and men, JP is not on board: — Kenosha Kid
No, you shouldn't have a life, you should make do with a hobby, woman. Be thankful for your gilded cage. — Kenosha Kid
He is a Messiah to the sexist, the misogynist, the incel because he exemplifies their beliefs: men are superior, men should be in charge, women should prioritise the needs of men and shut the fuck up. — Kenosha Kid
You did it earlier and had to apologise, claiming ignorance of the topic of the conversation, which I didn't believe. — Kenosha Kid
I'm not checking the reasonableness of characterisations you made but after you decided Carlos is pro-fascist for not critiquing the groups as you'd like, you'll understand if my expectations here are low. — Judaka
A link or source would be nice, I can't find it. I don't want to comment on this with so little information. — Judaka
He emphatically states the value of having women in the workforce, unimpeded, being able to do whatever they want to do. You are an incredibly untrustworthy narrator, if he's so bad, give me statements which show what you claimed about him to be true. — Judaka
it’s so whiny, it’s just enough to drive a modern person mad to listen to these suburban housewives from the late ’50s ensconced in their comfortable secure lives complaining about the fact that they’re bored because they don’t have enough opportunity. It’s like, Jesus get a hobby. For Christ’s sake — Kenosha Kid
Peterson is not arguing that women should be forced to be housewives. — Judaka
You are just exhibiting more of the same behaviour I've been criticising. — Judaka
Nobody forced me to apologise. — Judaka
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