I'm not sure whether birthrates are just a symptom of that same problem - lack of resources does seem part of it, but it's not like it's a simple linear relationship. There also doesn't seem to be a direct correlation between the countries worst affected (which as far as I know are Japan and South Korea) and a certain kind of capitalist practice. There is clearly a cultural element playing into this. — Echarmion
I think the problem with birth rates might be less one of capitalism in theory, and more one of where capitalism has ended up in practice. — Echarmion
What I am reasonably confident of is that most people no longer implicitly trust that their children will have it better than they will. That "american dream", seems very much dead. And that has an obvious implication for having children. — Echarmion
I know what you want to say here, just want to note that capitalism has always been backed up by the state in practice. The idea that capitalism represents a free economy in opposition to the state is a myth. — Echarmion
As long as there are so many people on the planet, there is no danger to capitalism. — baker
The point is that society is based on an infinite number of things going on at the same time. Nobody can understand this kind of complexity, yet proscribe solutions for it.
— synthesis
I'm arguing that the state should create an environment in which capitalism runs things more sustainably. — Kenosha Kid
The banks should have been allowed to fail in 2008. — synthesis
Does that clarify at all? — Isaac
But, as we’ve seen, rather than reduce the welfare state or better focus its spending on an aging population, the welfare state will seek to protect itself and move to replace its declining labor force through policies such as immigration. — NOS4A2
Welfare states will certainly suffer from declining birth rates. — NOS4A2
is capitalism about to f — Kenosha Kid
The banks should have been allowed to fail in 2008.
— synthesis
But the consequences of not bailing out the banks would have been catastrophic, not just for the market, but for the entire country. And that of course was the scam. Banks provide an essential public service, and so cannot be allowed to fail. — Kenosha Kid
What I'm arguing for is an environment in which banks can be allowed to fail, properly, and people can choose (freeeeeedom!) between trusting capitalist banks and risking failure or underwritten, regulated banks which will not perform as well in the short term but will abide such catastrophes. — Kenosha Kid
Which is still not a problem, as long as the capitalist aims to be proportionally/relatively wealthier than others.So from both ends, a contraction in the population is a contraction in the markets. — Kenosha Kid
I'm saying you are the one looking for heaven on Earth, when you say:Yes, someone will ALWAYS have an advantage. You are looking for heaven on Earth. It's simply not possible. — synthesis
the best path seems to be to allow for each participant to chart his own course (within the context of respecting others' rights to do the same). — synthesis
Therefore you allow those participating to figure out what works best for them in their situation (and guard against folks over-reaching and corruption). — synthesis
I know, the problem is that the state cannot do such. — synthesis
Governments are great at taking money from other people and (doing whatever...good, bad, or indifferent), — synthesis
Among other things, robotization is a cause of this trend , which I think will only accelerate. — Joshs
I also think that, as a reflection of choices people make for their own benefit , it will benefit capitalist economies. The current panic-mongering among economist over
population decline is the result of relying on old and outdated models to understand the relationship between economic growth and population. — Joshs
If the worker pool contracts, rather than many people competing for the same jobs, you'll have corporations competing for the same workers, which drives up wages. This is already evident in some job roles in rapidly expanding industries, such as IT. There hasn't been a bad time to be a programmer ever, even after the dot-com bubble burst.
Likewise if you have less people to sell shit to, you have less profit. So from both ends, a contraction in the population is a contraction in the markets. — Kenosha Kid
To get immigration, you have to be a nation that is attractive to live in. If it were true that socialist states have more, that would suggest that the world's workers are betting on those states.
That's total bullshit. This is what the politicians and bankers were telling everybody. I wonder why?? — synthesis
Banks used to fail all the time (and good riddance to them). — synthesis
Which is still not a problem, as long as the capitalist aims to be proportionally/relatively wealthier than others.
Ie. for such a capitalist to be successful, wealthy means to have x-times more than others. Whether this means having 10 billion when others have 10,000, or whether this means having ten horses while others have one donkey. — baker
I think more people try to escape from socialist states than move to them. The Venezuelan refugee crisis and Cuban exodus give us reasons as to why this occurs. — NOS4A2
But the consequences of not bailing out the banks would have been catastrophic, not just for the market, but for the entire country. And that of course was the scam. Banks provide an essential public service, and so cannot be allowed to fail.
— Kenosha Kid
That's total bullshit. This is what the politicians and bankers were telling everybody. I wonder why?? — synthesis
It's a problem for that business, but not for capitalism on the whole. One business fails, and another one flourishes. That's capitalism.Take a look at the typical fate of a business with falling or static stock prices. It's a problem. — Kenosha Kid
It's a problem for that business, but not for capitalism on the whole. One business fails, and another one flourishes. That's capitalism. — baker
Fertility rates have plunged also in countries with free education and adequate housing. The most important reason is that with prosperity and women joining the workforce people don't need offspring to take care of themselves when they are older. More affluent people have had far less children than poorer people for a very long time. And that the fertility rate has dropped also in non-Christian and non-Western countries tells quite well how universal this demographic transition is. Only the poorest countries have high fertility rates.One example is the cost of education in a capitalist society. There will exist a gradation from those for whom the expense is negligible to those for whom the expense is prohibitive.
Another is cost of housing. In some European countries, and my own is contemplating this, the idea of buying your own home in your own lifetime has been dispensed with, replaced instead by the idea of passing your debt on to future generations who might pay it off in theirs. — Kenosha Kid
This doesn't bode well for capitalism, which requires a) consumers, and b) a worker resource that is much larger than its needs (to drive down wages and job security). — Kenosha Kid
Yes, and as long as capitalists are willing to adapt, this is not a problem for them.Irrespective of how individual businesses fare, the market as a whole would contract. — Kenosha Kid
The idea that all would have been well had the banks been allowed to fail is, in your parlance, total bullshit.
Banks used to fail all the time (and good riddance to them).
— synthesis
When they were small enough to insure, to fail, and for insurers to be able to pay out the odd failure, yes. Insurers would no better have weathered the collapse of the entire sector. — Kenosha Kid
I feel that the battle between capitalism vs socialism needs to be transformed altogether to meet the needs of humanity in the widest sense
possible. — Jack Cummins
Thank you? :wink: — ssu
The most important reason is that with prosperity and women joining the workforce people don't need offspring to take care of themselves when they are older. — ssu
More affluent people have had far less children than poorer people for a very long time. — ssu
I don't think this a problem for capitalism, the private ownership of industry, but for the monetary system and the financial system. — ssu
Also it's an obstacle for a pay-as-you-go social welfare system that would need to function correctly a growing population. — ssu
If the younger generations are smaller than previous ones means simply that more of that capital is inherited by them. — ssu
I feel that the battle between capitalism vs socialism needs to be transformed altogether to meet the needs of humanity in the widest possible sense. — Jack Cummins
And, again, the mass exodus from former communist states after the fall of communism in Europe tells the opposite story. And let's not neglect those rapist Mexicans. At best, you've hit upon an irrelevancy.
Yes, and as long as capitalists are willing to adapt, this is not a problem for them. — baker
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