This could trigger a good discussion on: are man more attracted to philosophy than woman, the other way around? Is there still a strong cultural gender-bias? — Raul

When you take it as a problem, it becomes a problem.

I couldn't care less what your biology says you are or with what you identify with. As long as you can debate and expatiate profoundly about philosophy, I'm good with it...

This is a philosophy forum. Nothing more, nothing less...

When you take it as a problem, it becomes a problem. — Gus Lamarch

I don't see where Raul says it is a problem. Statistical populations are a basic fact of reality. Sounds perhaps like you are somehow offended by the question? Surveys don't bother me.

I don't see where Raul says it is a problem. Statistical populations are a basic fact of reality. Sounds perhaps like you are somehow offended by the question? Surveys don't bother me. — Pantagruel

My observation only states that only when touched on such an issue, it can become a problem - when one becomes aware of such an issue -.

Sounds perhaps like you are somehow offended by the question? Surveys don't bother me. — Pantagruel

This polarizes and divides a group - the forum - that already has its purposes and reasons for coming together - study and discuss philosophy -. This type of "research" only serves to the detriment of such intellectual homogeneity.

This could trigger a good discussion on: are man more attracted to philosophy than woman, the other way around? — Raul

The population that posts on an internet forum is not representative of the global population in a number of ways, including gender. Besides, a dozen data points do not a statistics make.

This polarizes and divides a group — Gus Lamarch

Actually no one is responding so it looks like many people think like you do.
I'm anyway surprise, but it is a learning for me, a sad one.

I recognize history is full of polarizations and divisions based on gender, religion and race and it looks like you and many people in this forum are reluctant to share their gender as they are afraid of prejudices. This is sad but it is what it is. And you're right , we never know who is on the other side.
I myself feel free of sharing I'm a white man and atheist and a natural-cognitist but, again, I respect if people are afraid of sharing their attributes.

Maybe, from a philosophical forum, I was expecting these prejudices would not be there...

Statistical populations are a basic fact of reality. — Pantagruel

Right, so for me it was interesting to see the gender distribution but looks like not everyone thinks like we do. Actually looks like we're a minority.

on an internet forum is not representative of the global population in a number of ways, including gender. — SophistiCat

Yes, I agree, it would not be a result of any scientific value but I find it interesting at least to see if my prejudices and assumptions are correct. This is to say that I'm expecting that more than 90% of people attracted by philosophy are men.

It's anyway interesting already to see that in this forum most of the people are still afraid of prejudices on sharing their gender...

Maybe, from a philosophical forum, I was expecting these prejudices would not be there... — Raul

Maybe, from a philosophical forum, I was expecting these prejudices would not be there... — Raul

It's not prejudice, it is just that your gender/sex doesn't mean anything when you're talking about philosophy - at least it shouldn't -.

It's not prejudice, it is just that your gender/sex doesn't mean anything when you're talking about philosophy - at least it shouldn't -. — Gus Lamarch

Right, so why would people not answer then? If we realize that data say most of the people in this forum are man I think is interesting and meaningful anyway.
Coud be a cultural bias, a biological bias, I don't know... while I'm sure there re serious studies about it. I'm sure the bias is there but could be I'm wrong and would be interesting to see if there re many more woman than what I would expect.
Net, I find it interesting but is ok, I think it is a lot about prejudice and in this case prejudice wins.

You can delete it if you want, I will understand.

Right, so why would people not answer then? — Raul

your gender/sex doesn't mean anything when you're talking about philosophy — Gus Lamarch

your gender/sex doesn't mean anything when you're talking about philosophy — Gus Lamarch

Please keep reading my previous post where I explain quite clearly that I disagree with what you say.
Gender/sex mean something when talking about anything, philosophy included.

And I would even add, you just reminded me that Simone de Beauvoir would have a lot of to say about this. It is a very interesting topic actually: gender and philosophy!

And I would even add, you just reminded me that Simone de Beauvoir would have a lot of to say about this. It is a very interesting topic actually: gender and philosophy! — Raul

Gender/Sex in philosophy is one thing;
Gender/Sex research in a philosophy forum is another.

If you had genuine questions about the topic, why don't you create a new thread then?
It seems to me that your research here, simply serves for people as one more argument against the forum - you know, the thought police is everywhere -.

You may see it as "just a research", but people may distort it to "how the forum is unequal in its men/women proportions"...

You may see it as "just a research", but people may distort it to "how the forum is unequal in its men/women proportions"... — Gus Lamarch

These are your fears that come from your perception of the question, not mines.
I think we were clear on this. You don't have to convince me of anything here.
As I said, if you want and can delete it go ahead.

Yes, I agree, it would not be a result of any scientific value but I find it interesting at least to see if my prejudices and assumptions are correct. This is to say that I'm expecting that more than 90% of people attracted by philosophy are men. — Raul

A quick Google found me this:

Gender Distribution of Degrees in Philosophy: "In 2014, 31% of philosophy degree completers at the bachelors and doctorate levels were women, and 28% of master’s degree recipients were women"

For comparison, Gender Distribution of Degrees in English Language and Literature: "Women have earned a majority of English language and literature degrees at the bachelor’s and master’s degree levels at least since the late 1960s, and reached a majority among doctoral degree recipients in 1981."

(These stats are for US colleges.)

As I said, if you want and can delete it go ahead. — Raul

Don't mind him, he is not a mod.

My observation only states that only when touched on such an issue, it can become a problem - when one becomes aware of such an issue -. — Gus Lamarch

If I may, you said, "when you take it as a problem, it becomes a problem.:" Raul wasn't taking it as a problem and neither was I. That leaves only you.

quick Google found me this — SophistiCat

Thanks :up:

If I may, you said, "when you take it as a problem, it becomes a problem.:" Raul wasn't taking it as a problem and neither was I. That leaves only you. — Pantagruel

I honestly don't know why you are meddling in a matter between me and Raul. Not wanting to be disrespectful, but I see no reason why you should continue to pursue a subject in which you were not even - initially - mentioned.

I honestly don't know why you are meddling in a matter between me and Raul — Gus Lamarch

I got the impression I was commenting on topic posted on a philosophy forum. I wasn't aware that this matter had privileged, private status (since normally that is what private messages are for). I'll try to keep that in mind when evaluating your posts from now on Gus.

I'll try to keep that in mind when evaluating your posts from now on Gus. — Pantagruel

Thank you.

Math PhDs 2017-18 in USA: 1,960 ... 29% women.

When you take it as a problem, it becomes a problem. — Gus Lamarch

Actually, it's not seeing the issue that is the problem.

...your gender/sex doesn't mean anything when you're talking about philosophy... — Gus Lamarch

At best, "...shouldn't..."

But demonstrably, it does. That's a topic worthy of discussion. What is missing from the forum because of this bias? What voices are not being heard, what perspectives might they add, what anxieties might they elicit?

Good stuff, I think.

And I reserve the privilege of meddling in any conversation here. If you don't like that, then keep your replies as PMs. It's an open forum. @Pantagruel :up:

And I reserve the privilege of meddling in any conversation here — Banno

:lol:

It seems an odd abstraction to me to begin to attribute phenomena created by social context to innate characteristics of a gender/sex. We know the social conditions of males and females are different. It seems a dangerous path to then, as males, to try to formulate an understanding of females as innately different.

The distribution of those who "philosophize" or think philosophically, is probably even. The distribution of who is respected, supported, and encouraged in academic settings of Philosophy is probably quite skewed. Similar to the field of engineering, some women don't continue the pursuit because the uphill battle isn't worth it- this phenomena in my mind says more about culture and society than it does about innate characteristics of sex/gender, although I'm uncomfortable lumping those two words together.

Is there still a strong cultural gender-bias? — Raul

I think it's readily apparent the answer to this question is a resounding yes. This makes the more important question obvious: Why is there still a strong cultural gender-bias? (Although I think we are misusing the term 'gender' here but for conversational purposes I'll go along with it). Have we altered society and culture enough to re-shape biases away from the problematic ones we are observing? What forces perpetuate these biases? How can we cultivate human potential differently than we currently do, and historically have?

And the most interesting question is:

What is missing from the forum because of this bias? What voices are not being heard, what perspectives might they add, what anxieties might they elicit? — Banno

I wish there were more people 'doing philosophy' in general. How philosophy is discussed is often un-inviting for many, perhaps that needs to change. If the rules were made by males and for males, we can hardly be surprised when males continue to foster a space that only they feel truly comfortable in. I have a feeling many thoughtful females shrug it off as "their loss" and move on with their lives, cultivating spaces where they share their ideas and enjoy discourse. I hardly think they'd like to come to a place where questions like this are being asked:

are man more attracted to philosophy than woman, the other way around? — Raul

Which is a question that presupposes a lot, I think.

Interesting thoughts all, I hope my input is understood and welcomed. Please let me know if I am unclear.

Well said.

Math PhDs 2017-18 in USA: 1,960 ... 29% women. — jgill

What the statistics show is not a "demonstration of lack of representativeness" of both sexes, but rather, that both sexes prefer, when given freedom of choice, completely different academic sides.

The act of forcing this "representativeness" of one of the sexes in some area, will only achieved this:

Representativeness.

Without any practical and theoretical power.

In summary and for the laity to understand: - Take better care of your own lives, and let others take care of - or destroy - their own.

But demonstrably, it does. That's a topic worthy of discussion. What is missing from the forum because of this bias? What voices are not being heard, what perspectives might they add, what anxieties might they elicit? — Banno

The concept becomes existing and self-conscious when people like you bring it up.

When you want a problem, you create it, but you never solve it.

The forum itself is a good - not great - reflection of how "letting people exercise their individual reflections" works and stabilizes the dialectic over the long run. The problem arises when you decide to state this:

At best, "...shouldn't..."

But demonstrably, it does. — Banno

Therefore, "Whereof one don't know how to speak, thereof one must be silent."

And I reserve the privilege of meddling in any conversation here. — Banno

I honestly don't know how people take you seriously, or even, how you take yourself seriously:

- The great Banno, with years and years of forum! When he decides to create a discussion, it will be very engaging!

And then you copy and paste a link from the internet and write your opinion on 1 line. Philosophy at its best!?

So, feel free to meddle in my conversations, I just tell you that the probability of this happening for a long time is minimal, since you will be unable to maintain a peace of mind.

It's an open forum. — Banno

Exactly: - It is a free forum, not a free discussion.

What the statistics show is not a "demonstration of lack of representativeness" of both sexes, but rather, that both sexes prefer, when given freedom of choice, completely different academic sides. — Gus Lamarch

Just out of curiosity, how exactly do you know for certain whether a given statistical trend is representative of an individual choice or a cultural influence?

The concept becomes existing and self-conscious when people like you bring it up. — Gus Lamarch

ah. so the discrepancy will go away if we do not talk about it. Shhh, folks; you're upsetting Gus.

This is one of the hallmarks of calling out white privilege and racism – white people, particularly white males, go into emotional self-defence mode to protect themselves. Like children having too much ice-cream taken away, they cry and fight and throw tantrums to protect what they perceive as their birth right. They have a grief reaction. When one has privilege and they are so used to it that they think it’s normal, equality feels like oppression.

...that goes for sexism, too.

Black Women Confronting Racism and Sexism

This is one of the hallmarks of calling out white privilege and racism – white people, particularly white males, go into emotional self-defence mode to protect themselves. Like children having too much ice-cream taken away, they cry and fight and throw tantrums to protect what they perceive as their birth right. They have a grief reaction. When one has privilege and they are so used to it that they think it’s normal, equality feels like oppression.

...that goes for sexism, too.

Black Women Confronting Racism and Sexism — Banno

This type of garbage is not worth discussing due to the following factors:

Doublethink;
Historical revisionism;
Victimism complex.

Your answers only strengthen my previous observation:

I honestly don't know how people take you seriously, or even, how you take yourself seriously:

- The great Banno, with years and years of forum! When he decides to create a discussion, it will be very engaging!

And then you copy and paste a link from the internet and write your opinion on 1 line. Philosophy at its best!? — Gus Lamarch

Remember "@JerseyFlight"? He just wasn't any worse than you because he spoke; You, on the contrary, are a silent plague.

Late comer here. The choices are man, woman, other. What is other?

What is other? — tim wood

Probably "Canine", but I doubt that dogs would know how to answer it.

The reason why 'other' is sometimes used on forms is to give room to anyone, who, for whatever reason, does not feel that they fit into a binary distinction of the two gender categories.

The reason why 'other' is sometimes used on forms is to give room to anyone, who, for whatever reason, does not feel that they fit into a binary distinction of the two gender categories. — Jack Cummins

I'm actually right now updating our provincial AEFI (Adverse Event Following Immunization) form for special tracking of Covid - it now includes a gender category: Unknown.