Well, I never said that. Trump’s speech, however, is protected.

Speech that can be shown to incite insurrection is not protected.

Anyway, as predicted, the GOP Senate has clearly demonstrated once again the fact that it's been taken over by Trump, with the notable exception of the 7 principled Senators who voted to convict. Also noteworty is McConnell saying after the verdict that he holds Trump responsible, but didn't vote to convict because he didn't believe it had jurisdiction over ex-office holders. A parody of justice once more, but let's hope that Trump really has done his dash and this the beginning of the end for him.

They made a deal to move to closing arguments without calling witnesses. Trump’s team threatened to call Pelosi, Harris, and more. — NOS4A2

Right, Trump's team threatened to call hundreds of witnesses and drag the trial out for months, preventing all the other work that needs to get done from getting down. It would be just like Trump being in control for a few more months. After those months of Trump wasting everybody's time, and preventing the legislature from getting anything done, they probably wouldn't get the votes needed anyway.

The minority GOP made the majority Dems blink. Déjà vu: No witnesses, therefore no trial (political or otherwise). tr45h 2, USA 0. :shade:

Anyone who expected differently has not been paying attention.

Well, now we know. We know how the Republican Party wants to go down in history. They’ve made it as clear as could be.

First, two-thirds of the members of the Republican caucus of the House of Representatives voted on Jan. 6 to refuse to affirm the results of the presidential election. They continued doing so, we know, after the riot, after Capitol Hill Police Officer Brian Sicknick lay dead, after a mob had defaced the Capitol building. Denying Joe Biden the presidency was, of course, the mission of the mob. So two-thirds of House Republicans voted to condone the mob. And now, we’ve seen that 86 percent of Republican senators have voted to deny what’s in front of their noses and insist that Donald Trump bears no blame they can provide for the riot he incited.

In sum, congressional Republicans have put themselves on record saying that they are, in effect, untroubled by the worst assault on our democracy since the Civil War. The rioters were justified, said the two-thirds of House Republicans who agreed that Biden wasn’t really elected. And Senate Republicans said that the president who urged them to march on the Capitol and fight like hell or you won’t have a country anymore and then sat back and watched and did nothing to stop it (and to this day has never denounced it) bore no responsibility for the assault, or at least none that they could mete out. Those 43 Republicans just spit in the face of American democracy.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-gop-just-spit-in-the-face-of-american-democracy-by-acquitting-trump-at-his-second-impeachment-trial?ref=home

Both before and during the Senate trial, Trump’s defenders asserted that there’s no clear causal link between his malfeasance and that police officer’s screams. But the House Democrats effectively destroyed that argument by documenting not only Trump’s words in the days, hours and minutes before the mob attacked but also his long, painstaking campaign to erode trust in democratic processes, so that if those processes didn’t favor him, his supporters were primed to junk them. He’s a study in slow-motion treason. Jan. 6 was simply when he slammed his foot down on the accelerator.

It was also, in retrospect, the climax that his presidency was always building toward, the inevitable fruit of his meticulous indoctrination of his base, his methodical degradation of American institutions, his romancing of right-wing media and his recruitment of the most ambitious and unscrupulous Republican lawmakers. At his behest, Josh Hawley, Ted Cruz and several other Republican senators promoted the lethal falsehood that the election was fraudulent, yet that didn’t disqualify them from sitting as jurors to render a foregone verdict on a man whose delusions they had already endorsed. What a system. What a farce.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/13/opinion/sunday/trump-republican-impeachment.html?smid=url-share

And once again the political finesse/stinking hypocrisy of McConnell is on full display. Gives a damning speech, more or less fessing up that ‘Trump did it’. But at the same time, refused to convict. A classic bet each way.

That's not true at all. All of Trump's actions following the election, especially his incessant claims that the election was "stolen", ought to be considered as evidence. The event of January 6th was planned long in advance, so it is not just a matter of looking at what happened on that particular date.

If the election wasn't really stolen from him, then the inciting of his followers to protest, is a matter of fraudulent behaviour. And wherever there is fraud there is the intent of wrongful gain. Therefore we need to ask what did Trump intend to gain by inciting his followers to protest at that particular place, on that particular date. — Metaphysician Undercover

This type of response it what is expected of someone that is indoctrinated with group-think.

The Dems were incessantly claiming that Trump stole the 2016 election. The Dems DID steal the 2016 Primary from Bernie and did it again in 2020. The Dems failed to call back their violent constituents and even encouraged them and people died and property was destroyed.

So please don't try to pass yourself and the Dems off as holier-then-thou because they pull the same shit as the Reps.

If you think that Biden, who came in last place in the 2012 primary, got more votes than Hillary and Obama in the 2020 general election, then you're fooling yourself.

The reason why the Reps aren't fighting the results is because they rig elections too and any investigations would likely expose them too.

Just listen to Tulsi Gabbard who said that after new representatives finish their orientation the Reps and Dems go their different directions and each work separately to get wins for the party. In DC, political party comes first and the needs of the citizens are a distant last.

If you think that Biden, who came in last place in the 2012 primary, got more votes than Hillary and Obama in the 2020 general election, then you're fooling yourself. — Harry Hindu

You're fooling yourself if you think that there were 15,415,410+ illegitimate votes.

You're fooling yourself if you think that there were 15,353,129+ illegitimate votes. — Michael

I didn't say that. How do you reconcile what I actually said with what you just said?

The Dems were incessantly claiming that Trump stole the 2016 election. The Dems DID steal the 2016 Primary from Bernie and did it again in 2020. The Dems failed to call back their violent constituents and even encouraged them and people died and property was destroyed. — Harry Hindu

This is nonsense Harry. The Dems never contested the results of the 2016 election, nor were there accusations of theft. There was accusations of illegal foreign interference, which were investigated and proven as true accusations.

The Dems did not steal the primary from Bernie. What could that even mean? It's the primary of the Democrats, how could they steal it from themselves?

And I don't see how the third point is even remotely relevant.

So please don't try to pass yourself and the Dems off as holier-then-thou because they pull the same shit as the Reps. — Harry Hindu

I didn't and I won't.

I didn't say that. How do you reconcile what I actually said with what you just said? — Harry Hindu

Hillary got 65,853,514 votes in the 2016 election. Biden got 81,268,924 in the 2020 election. You claimed that Metaphysician Undercover is fooling himself for believing that Biden got more votes than Hillary. Therefore you're claiming that 15,415,410+ votes for Biden weren't legitimate.

Right. So, please tell me why Biden got more votes than Hillary when he came in last place in the primary against her and Obama? And Kamala came in last place in the 2020 primary. It seems to me that the elitists are determining who leads the party, not the actual voters.

So, please tell me why Biden got more votes than Hillary when he came in last place in the primary against her and Obama? — Harry Hindu

Because Biden was competing against Trump, not Hillary or Obama. Democratic voters prefer Obama to Hillary, Hillary to Biden, and Biden to Trump. It's not rocket science.

This is nonsense Harry. The Dems never contested the results of the 2016 election, nor were there accusations of theft. There was accusations of illegal foreign interference, which were investigated and proven as true accusations. — Metaphysician Undercover

Do I have to think independently for you, MU? This was just the tip of the iceburg.
https://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/no-trump-electoral-college-challenge-233294

The Dems did not steal the primary from Bernie. What could that even mean? It's the primary of the Democrats, how could they steal it from themselves? — Metaphysician Undercover

The foreign interference showed that the Dems were rigging elections to ensure their guy was the one that made it to the top. To think that the Dems were the only ones engaged in such activity would be just as blind as one who thinks the Dems possess a monopoly on morality.

The Dems never contested the results of the 2016 election, nor were there accusations of theft. — Metaphysician Undercover

LOL! Yeah right:

Hillary Clinton is sticking with her conviction that the 2016 presidential election was not conducted legitimately, saying the details surrounding her loss are still unclear.

“There was a widespread understanding that this election [in 2016] was not on the level,” Clinton said during an interview for the latest episode of The Atlantic’s politics podcast, The Ticket. “We still don’t know what really happened.”

“There’s just a lot that I think will be revealed. History will discover,” the Democratic Party’s 2016 presidential nominee continued. “But you don’t win by 3 million votes and have all this other shenanigans and stuff going on and not come away with an idea like, ‘Whoa, something’s not right here.’ That was a deep sense of unease.”

See Hillary Clinton Maintains 2016 Election ‘Was Not On the Level’: ‘We Still Don’t Know What Really Happened’

And oh, she gave that interview LAST YEAR, btw.

Because Biden was competing against Trump, not Hillary or Obama. Democratic voters prefer Obama to Hillary, Hillary to Biden, and Biden to Trump. It's not rocket science. — Michael

So it was more for a hate for Trump than a like for Biden. That is no wonder considering the assault on the man's character throughout his tenure. Just imagine if you or I became president looking to change the way things are done in DC. Those in power are going to hit back hard if you try to put a halt to their gravy train. The system is rigged against an outsider trying to come in and change things.

In this case, it was the voters that were rigged, not the actual votes.

To be consistent, if it's possible for people to be influenced to do things that they normally wouldn't do - like engaging in violence and theft, given that they were told that they were being oppressed in some way, then it is just as likely that people can be influenced to vote a certain way given the barrage of negativity that the media has generated over the last four years.

The US is a free country and everyone is responsible for themselves.
— baker

...and there's your problem. — Banno

I was being cynical.

It seems that the only way to live up to the American ideals of freedom and responsibility would be to abolish the United States of America altogether.

It seems that the only way to live up to the American ideals of freedom and responsibility would be to abolish the United States of America altogether. — baker

If nation states should have a logic to them.

But they don't.

The strength of the US is that the US means so many different things to different people.

The strength of the US is that the US means so many different things to different people. — ssu

The perfect Humpty Dumpty land, then!

Shoan’s evisceration of the House manager’s lies was amazing to watch, but it’s also useful because this is the sort of manipulation the American media has been getting away with for years.

I watched reporting on the House presentation on both the CBC (Canada’s state run news) and the BBC, but there was zero critical analysis of the House narrative, almost as if they have become the foreign echo-chambers of the liberal media complex. Very disappointing.

And oh, she gave that interview LAST YEAR, btw. — ssu

Right, there is very clear evidence, and a formal inquiry, which came to the conclusion that there was illegal foreign interference in the 2016 election. Therefore what Clinton said in that interview that the election "was not on the level" is well justified.

However, no one formally contested the results of the 2016 election. That's the difference. Trump did formally contest the results of the 2020 election, with about 60 or more court applications. Do you see the difference? If you beat me in an election, and I go to the media and say look, there was such and such going on behind the scenes, there were people assisting ssu using illegal practices, and I work at the effort of bringing those involved to be held accountable, that's one thing. But if I go to the authorities charged with overseeing the election, and request that the election be annulled, that's a completely different thing. The two are not comparable as if they are the same thing.

However, no one formally contested the results of the 2016 election. That's the difference. - Do you see the difference? — Metaphysician Undercover

Do you see the similarity?

When you say "The Dems never contested the results of the 2016 election, nor were there accusations of theft", I simply make the notice that those elections weren't so fine and dandy, but a lot of bitching about the results then too. And accusations about theft?

Like in WP this one (from Dec 2016, among others): The 2016 election was stolen. Got a nicer way to say that?

that's an opinion piece from Tom Toole, the WP's editorial cartoonist. It points out that Clinton had won the popular vote and Trump's overal margin was vanishingly small, both of which are matters of public record, and also talks the Russian efforts to sway the election, the FBI involvement and the media obsession with Trump. In other words, there was nothing said there that wasn't said in a lot of other opinion pieces around that time, but it is nothing like Trump's Big Lie.

Anyone who expected differently has not been paying attention. — StreetlightX

:point:

The strength of the US is that the US means so many different things to different people.
— ssu
The perfect Humpty Dumpty land, then! — baker

:point:

Yup. It has shown itself to be exactly that.

Because Biden was competing against Trump, not Hillary or Obama. Democratic voters prefer Obama to Hillary, Hillary to Biden, and Biden to Trump. It's not rocket science. — Michael

Using this logic, Hillary should have beat Trump. So it appears that at least one election was rigged - the 2016 or the 2020? We already know the Dems were rigging their own primary in 2016.

Using this logic, Hillary should have beat Trump. — Harry Hindu

More people did vote for Hillary than Trump (2,868,686 more), but Presidents aren't chosen by the popular vote.

Democratic voters prefer Obama to Hillary, Hillary to Biden, and Biden to Trump. It's not rocket science. — Michael

So did the DNC.