PS I would not know happiness if I had not stumbled onto philosophy! If it were not for philosophy I would still be one of the most miserable people on earth. — Athena
I am a very fortunate person to have such a good life, — Athena
Experience (i.e. understanding-based competence), however, is developed through surviving and/or overcoming failure. — 180 Proof
I feel the same way. I see that I am one of the most fortunate people in the history of the world, even though there have been some really unhappy parts of my life. But I don't think that's really what's going on. I think it's what's inside us, you and me, that makes us, I don't like the word, optimists. There are many other people who live in the same world who cranky and unhappy and who blame this beautiful world. — T Clark
I would not know happiness if I had not stumbled onto philosophy! — Athena
Oh, good. I get to show off my erudition. This is from Stephen Mitchell's translation of the Tao Te Ching:
When the Tao is lost, there is goodness.
When goodness is lost, there is morality.
When morality is lost, there is ritual.
Ritual is the husk of true faith,
the beginning of chaos.
If I may interpret the interpretation. The Tao is the unspeakable oneness that comes before thought. Goodness, in this context, is Te, the expression of Tao in our lives. I think what Cicero and you are talking about is morality. Interpretation of the interpretation of the interpretation - What's right comes from inside us. — T Clark
Philosophy, in particular western philosophy, has always seemed like a stone wall to me. Hard, rigid, and overbuilt but fun to bounce balls, my ideas, off. The stoniest of the stones is Kant. There are some philosophers I like sometimes - e.g. Emerson and James.
On the other hand, I've met other people like you who were saved by philosophy. I must admit I don't get it, but I've come to respect it and accept that it works. For me, it's like jazz. It's not my music and I don't really get it, but enough people I respect value it that it would be silly and graceless to argue. — T Clark
I did not like Confucious because he is so sexist, but I did like his explanation of the importance of putting effort into being the kind of human being we want to be. — Athena
I don't know if you are familiar with Lao Tzu, who wrote the Tao Te Ching. He was the anti-Confucius. Here's my sales pitch for the Tao Te Ching - it is the founding book of a major school of philosophy and you can read it in an hour. You get just as much spiritual credit as you would for reading the Bible or Book of Mormon. — T Clark
T Clark — T Clark
Forgive me for my bluntness, but it does feel like a waste. A waste of intellect if the most intelligent people in the world don't feel the need to improve it. Or am I wrong? — TaySan
↪Athena
I'm interested in how you interpret the transfer of wealth consideration and what are the mechanisms that will cause this to happen. Please start a topic on that!
Otherwise my observation it is less because people are inherently amoral, more it is of where we are in the reality we individually are able to conjure for ourselves. Some people live day-to-day because they must, others are part of some sub-culture that is given to certain attitudes, still others have time to consider larger topics- these are not always in sync. — Proximate1
Well, philosophers did come up with science, so there's that. — Banno
2. If and when philosophers or anyone else came up with a world-saving idea, then they would also have to sell the idea to the world-- much harder an endeavour than finding a solution. Would need to tackle, fight and overcome prejudice, ingrained cultural norms, and personal preferences and beliefs... not possible. — god must be atheist
You may have missed my point - the Tao Te Ching is short. It's a corollary to Occam's Razor - if you have two books which are otherwise the same, read the shorter one. It's not the same as the I Ching. The I Ching is much older. I've never read or used it. Here's a link to a whole bunch of different translations of the Tao Te Ching:
https://terebess.hu/english/tao/_index.html
I started with Stephen Mitchell's version. I like it a lot. I've learned since that it is very Americanized. Some of the nuance get's left out, but ancient Chinese nuance can be really obscure. Ellen Marie Chen. Addiss & Lombardo.
I was grabbed in the first verse. I've known others who took longer. First rule of book gifts or recommendations - never ask if the person has read the book. I won't. — T Clark
The Tao has no name
it is a cloud that has no shape.
If a ruler
follows it faithfully,
Heaven and earth make love,
And sweet dew-rain love,
The people do not know why,
But they are gathered together like music. — Man-ho Kwok Martin Palmer Jay Ramsay
n tune with Tao is much more than factual correctness and sometimes words just are not good enough to convey meaning. — Athena
You got a very flowery translation. You don't strike me as a huggy kissy kind of person. Take a look at the first verse in some of the other translations too. You can find them at the link I gave. Stephen Mitchell's is one good one. They are much more hard hitting. The Tao Te Ching is an engineering textbook to teach you how to build reality. Of course, I'm an engineer. It's that old hammer/nail thing. — T Clark
Very true! Because of the US war with Afghanistan and a huge investment, half of Afghanistan has been Americanized and brought into the modern world, and half has not. When we pull our troops out, other countries will likely do the same, and there will be a blood bathe as the more barbaric Aghanstanians fight to take back their country and the way of life people had when the Bible was written, complete with beheading some people and stoning others. The best fighters in this war are the women who want the equality they have gained. They are our sisters and we are about to turn our backs on them and their children. — Athena
Ah go on, just because I chose the translation with pictures doesn't mean it is too flowery. :lol: I am afraid you are right about me not being a huggy kissy person. That spreads disease, yuck. But in my private life, in solitude by the river, I am flooded with happiness, and I am good with the matter of my physical form dissimulating and becoming one with nature. While walking down the river path, I have no desire to hit anything or anyone with a hammer. :grin:
My father was an engineer. He worked on the Apollo that landed on the moon. He was in favor of language that was straight and to the point. That is fine for guys and women who want to be like them, but I enjoy being a girl. A bit dreamy. :grin: — Athena
Anyone saying science has made philosophy irrelevant doesn't seem to understand what philosophy is or how it works in academia — Christoffer
:pray: :heart: in tune with Tao is much more than factual correctness and sometimes words just are not good enough to convey meaning. I think it is pretty Asian, in general, to think our brains chatter too much and that certainly distorts or completely blocks our experience of life — Athena
@TaySanPerhaps as a discipline it is not taken seriously enough then in the current educational systems.
I am very anti-philosophic and I avoid philosophy because it is playing with shadows, thoughts, speculation. ....there are people who have the philosophic attitude. And if you are one of them, please drop it; — Anand-Haqq
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