I see the TTC as a bunch of snap shots of the Tao. Lao Tzu is trying to show it to us without letting the words get in the way. We're supposed to get our view of the Tao in our peripheral vision. — T Clark
It is my belief that Lao Tzu was pointing out how, where and why words fail. — Present awareness
The natural question is, if Taoism not an intellectual exercise why does it feel like one? — TheMadFool
The lesson of Taoism then is that instead of getting our knickers in a twist trying to construct better and better generalizations to accommodate exceptions what we should be doing is assume a flexible stance, a necessity if one is to recognize that each situation is unique in and of itself and deserves to be treated as such and not in accordance to some rule/principle that's intended to cover all cases...because that's "impossible"??? — TheMadFool
This also reminded me of Kant as you later mentioned. — Benkei
legal positivist idea of a Grundnorm. — Benkei
Yeah, they seem somewhat at odds with the more personal passages, but I appreciate your thoughts, both. — Isaac
When people see some things as beautiful,
other things become ugly.
When people see some things as good,
other things become bad. — T Clark
Being and non-being create each other.
Difficult and easy support each other.
Long and short define each other.
High and low depend on each other.
Before and after follow each other. — T Clark
Therefore the Master
acts without doing anything
and teaches without saying anything.
Things arise and she lets them come;
things disappear and she lets them go.
She has but doesn't possess,
acts but doesn't expect.
When her work is done, she forgets it.
That is why it lasts forever. — T Clark
We are both reading the Chuang Tzu or Zhuangzi but at a different pace. — Amity
'...the teaching of the Tao Te Ching is moral in the deepest sense'. — Amity
Ah, now that makes sense to me. It rings with my idea of 'gaps between the snaps' when it comes to discovering family history. — Amity
The Tao comes before words. — T Clark
This verse, I think, refers again to the central paradox, and to the role of affect. This is how we qualitatively differentiate experience - by valence, positive and negative. But in relation to the Tao this distinction isn’t digital - it’s relational. — Possibility
reality is not just black and white, it’s shades of grey... Any description of a shade of grey is necessarily relational. — Possibility
The difference between this type of differentiation and conceptual distinction is dimensional, in my view. Good and bad, beautiful and ugly, difficult and easy, long and short - they’re are all transcendental or aesthetic ideas. Naming a particular thing consolidates the relational structure of a concept, effectively isolating it from other concepts. Valence, on the other hand, points out that nothing is ever really isolated, that there is no being except in relation to non-being, no after without a before. — Possibility
This reminds me of Deacon’s absentials. When we’re not choosing, we’re still choosing. It’s about being conscious of what we allow and enable by our inaction (ignorance, isolation and exclusion) as well as by our action (awareness, connection and collaboration). — Possibility
The English translation of the word “Tao” could very well be “the way of nature”. — Present awareness
Direct experience, is the way that we perceive nature, — Present awareness
Isn't "talking about action" the same thing as consciousness? Even if it's just talking to ourselves. — T Clark
The change in our understanding and restraining from leaping into action uncovers the way things actually work and come about. — Valentinus
When the world practices Tao,
Fast horses are used for their dung. — T Clark
The rule/principle that's "problematic" in the above verse is that fast horses should be used for racing, to serve as conveyance for messengers, in the military, etc.; dung is the last thing on people's minds when they see/hear of fast horses. — TheMadFool
When the Principle reigns the horses of war are raised in the fields — javi2541997
I don't know what version Javi was using: — T Clark
Carpenter Shi went to Qi and, when he got to Crooked Shaft, he saw a serrate oak standing by the village shrine. It was broad enough to shelter several thousand oxen and measured a hundred spans around, towering above the hills. The lowest branches were eighty five feet from the ground and a dozen or so of them could have been made into boats. There were so many sightseers that the place looked like a fair, but the carpenter didn't even glance around and went on his way without stopping. His apprentice stood staring for a long time and then ran after Carpenter Shi and said, "Since I first took up my axe, Master, I have never see timber as beautiful as this. But you don't even bother to look, and go right on without stopping. Why is that?
"Forget it - say no more!" said the carpenter. "It's a worthless tree! Make boats out of it and they'd sink; make coffins and they'd rot in no time; make vessels and they'd break at once. Use it for doors and it would sweat sap like pine; use if tor posts and the worms would eat them up. It's not a timber tree - there's nothing it can be used for. That's how it got to be that old!
After Carpenter Shi had returned home, the oak tree appeared to him in a dream and, "What are you comparing me with? Are you comparing me with those useful trees? The cherry, the apple, the pear, the orange, the citron, the rest of those fructiferous trees and shrubs - as soon as their fruit is ripe they are torn apart and subjected to abuse. Their big limbs are broken off, their little limbs are yanked around. Their utility make life miserable for them, and so they don't get to finish out the years Heaven gave them but are cut off in mid - journey. They bring it on themselves - the pulling and tearing of the common mob, And it's the same way with all other things.
"As for me, I've been trying a long time to be of no use, and though I almost died, I've finally got it. This is of great use to me. If I had been of some use, would I ever have grown this large? Moreover, you and I are both us things. What's the point of this - things condemning things? You, a worthless man about to die - how do you know I am a worthless tree?"
When Carpenter Shi woke up, he reported his dream. His apprentice said, "If its so intent on being of no use, what's it doing there at the village shrine?"
"Shhh! Say no more! It's only resting there. If we carp and criticize, it will merely conclude that we don't understand it. Even if it weren't at the shrine, do you suppose it would be cut down? It protects itself in a different way from ordinary people. If you try to judge it by conventional standards, you'll be way off! — Translated by Burton Watson, Chap.4
Cuando reina el Principio (al ser perfecta la paz), los caballos de guerra trabajan en el campo
Cuando se olvida el Principio (al estar en guerra la orden del día), se crían caballos de batalla hasta en los arrabales de las ciudades — javi2541997
That observation about utility and perspective reminds me of one my favorite passages from Zhuangzi: — Valentinus
Although there is also a reciprocality. The bad man provides the good man with something too. — T Clark
There is no reciprocality in the true sense. If you look at statements 1 and 2, they're both jobs for the good man. In both statements, arrows point only to one direction. — Caldwell
I like this.A good scientist has freed himself of concepts
and keeps his mind open to what is.
Thus the Master is available to all people
and doesn't reject anyone.
He is ready to use all situations
and doesn't waste anything.
This is called embodying the light. — T Clark
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