Escape
  • Nagel
    47
    2:11 AM 21/02/2021

    Art viewed as escapism—how very naïve. I suspect that this naivety stems from man's conscience; the part of him that induces guilt whenever he goes contrary to the identity he connects himself with. He has developed such a pessimism towards life that he labels sources of relief, comfort, glee, and all these pleasant feelings as hostile—in the way that they feel as though life, being full of pain and suffering, should at all times remain the only priority. The things that repels them from their miserable conception of life are interpreted as the evil that must be avoided. Anyone who puts themselves on the side of goodness always feels remorse at the presence of evil. Thus it was born—art viewed as escapism.

    But of course, those who view art as something that has the ultimate purpose of freeing one from their conception of life, by which I mean life full of pain and suffering, are most guilty of dirtying the mass' conception of art.

    By this, I mean to say one thing—art is not an escape from reality; it is its festival!
    Nagel Options
  • Shawn
    13.3k
    This is true. And, Schopenhauer was happy to say so!
    Shawn Options
  • Nagel
    47
    ↪Shawn
    though in this case, Schopenhauer is the one who is responsible for this dirtyfication.
    Nagel Options
  • Shawn
    13.3k
    ↪Nagel


    Yes, but, why dirty? It's a fact of life, no?
    Shawn Options
  • Nagel
    47
    ↪Shawn
    what, that art is supposed to pull you away from the suffering of life? Asceticism seems to me very repulsive, especially in art. If it is a fact, it is one I am greatly opposed to.
    Nagel Options
  • Shawn
    13.3k
    what, that art is supposed to pull you away from the suffering of life? Asceticism seems to me very repulsive, especially in art. If it is a fact, it is one I am greatly opposed to. — Nagel

    Asceticism doesn't have much to do with art, or does it? I simply think art doesn't necessarily distance life from itself. Schopenhauer didn't get this right with the genre. Perhaps, not entirely but somewhat in specific nuances.
    Shawn Options
  • Tom Storm
    9.2k
    ↪Nagel


    Art does whatever you want it to do. What does it matter? Unless you are a strict idealist...
    Tom Storm Options
  • Nagel
    47
    ↪Tom Storm
    It matters only in the humanistic sense, free of or consciously constricted by psychological hurdles. Beyond that, I have nothing to say. It can be whatever, right, though once it becomes something, it will as with the principle of individuation, separate itself from other conceptions and build a world for itself.
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  • Nagel
    47
    Schopenhauer didn't get this right with the genre. — Shawn

    Precisely my point.

    I simply think art doesn't necessarily distance life from itself. — Shawn

    As do I. However, I think that once one treats the whole of life, the world, as art, the best way to appreciate it would be by, er, "treating it as a festival." i.e., as a celebration rather than an escape.
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  • baker
    5.7k
    Art viewed as escapism—how very naïve. — Nagel
    There's a simple cure for this naivete: Enroll in a college course to earn a degree in art.
    baker Options
  • Nagel
    47
    \
    There's a simple cure for this naivete: Enroll in a college course to earn a degree in art. — baker

    "Simple," you say.
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  • TheMadFool
    13.8k
    Art as escapism. Well, it's quite undeniable that given the right conditions - a certain personality type, the right kind of art, and so on - a person can construct a world out of art which then becomes faer made-up sanctuary - a place to retreat to, if only in daydreams, from the indifference bordering on frank hostility of reality.

    That said, these mind-worlds serve a very useful purpose - as beacons that reveal a "better world" as opposed to the world as it is, "unsatisfactory" to put it mildly. In other words, it's quite a difficult task to tell apart an escapist from a visionary.
    TheMadFool Options
  • Nagel
    47
    ↪TheMadFool
    You have a point. A simplification would probably be to say that one is constructive, the other destructive, but it falls short as a separating line. But couple this with "activity," there will be a seemingly apparent difference. The visionary of a Leandro Leviste or an Elon Musk can very apparently be seen especially when juxtaposed with the "sleeping, dreaming man" It's that act of valuing, the striving for a "better world" that differentiates one from the other.
    Nagel Options
  • TheMadFool
    13.8k
    You have a point. A simplification would probably be to say that one is constructive, the other destructive, but it falls short as a separating line. But couple this with "activity," there will be a seemingly apparent difference. The visionary of a Leandro Leviste or an Elon Musk can very apparently be seen especially when juxtaposed with the "sleeping, dreaming man" It's that act of valuing, the striving for a "better world" that differentiates one from the other. — Nagel

    I find the combination escapism and art to be packed with potential. The escapist is weary of the world - just too many things wrong with it - and the artist, naturally sensitive to aesthetics, imagines, creates and presents faer impression of how beautiful we can make the world.
    TheMadFool Options
  • Nagel
    47
    ↪TheMadFool
    I am wary to equate the escapist with the cultural critic, but I suppose it's that combination of art and criticality that creates the visionary. Problems with education, sustainable energy, employment, and whatnot; these are addressed and solved by the 'critic' and the 'artist'; on the other hand, the escapist would be more than willing to get away from these as far as possible.
    Nagel Options
  • Deleted User
    0
    ↪Nagel
    As an artist I've always been very aware of this dilemma. Where do you draw the line between fact and fiction? Growing up with Van Gogh, I told myself that I'd never lose my grip on reality like him. To do so, I spend only limited time on the production and consumption of art. People don't even realize how we are being inundated with music, imagery and other forms of involuntary brainwashing. That's why meditation and contemplation are my core ascetic tools. And no, I don't think there's anything dirty or repulsive about this.
    Deleted User Options
  • Nagel
    47
    ↪TaySan
    Is that so. As being an artist myself, I would say that I smashed broken the line between fact and fiction just as one smashes the illusory line between the internal self and the external world. However, the problem of escapism, of nonappreciation, of worldly rejection, are to me present and harmful not just in an aesthetic sense, but on a natural, humanist sense. My solution was then this: to embrace the holisticness of the artwork that is the world.
    Nagel Options
  • Deleted User
    0
    ↪Nagel
    Holisticness or holisticism barely seems to exist as a word even. Perhaps it's the way for the future. And I find the term 'world' confusing, since humans are already living in space. Albeit for short times. But congratulations on smashing the mirror of illusion. Must be a relief.

    I'm not really good with emotions on the envy-disgust-contempt spectrum. Generally regard all 'negative' emotions as unpleasant. But perhaps dirtification can be a wonderful thing!
    Deleted User Options
  • James Riley
    2.9k
    I know some artists who view existence as bad art. But as artists, they try not to judge. They go create their own art. Sometimes they think their own work is bad. They try not to judge themselves. They enjoy arting. Arting seems to have become an art in itself. They then find the good in that existence piece they didn't like. And then low-and-behold, there is a collaborative masterpiece! Which kind of sucks. So they go art.

    I wish I was talented like that.
    James Riley Options
  • Nagel
    47
    ↪TaySan
    Welp, the paradox with my thought is that dirtification is in itself a work of art worthy of honor and so on.
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  • Nagel
    47
    ↪James Riley
    that's interesting. it's that holistic-love full of paradoxes that I like. It goes something like "it sucks, but it is beautiful"
    Nagel Options
  • James Riley
    2.9k
    It goes something like "it sucks, but it is beautiful" — Nagel

    In the special operations community we have a saying "Embrace the suck."

    A great cartoon (for the Army side of the house) is a grunt standing in the rain saying "This sucks!" The next frame is a Ranger up to his waste in the rain and mud saying "I like the way this sucks!" The next frame is a Special Forces guy up to his neck in the rain and mud, a snake in his teeth saying "I wish this sucked more!" The next frame is a pilot flying over, looking down and saying "Sucks down there." The last frame is a pouge back in the barracks who can't get the cable tv to work saying "This sucks!".
    James Riley Options
  • Deleted User
    0
    ↪Nagel
    sure
    Deleted User Options
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