It is a good question whether esoteric ideas solve all problems. — Jack Cummins
There's just no meaningful communication to be had with someone who claims to have an exalted epistemic (or other) status. (This goes for some philosophy professors and scientists as well.) — baker
I disqualify "esoteric knowledge" as mumbo-jumbo until and unless you give some substantial definition. What is it?the underlying aspects of esoteric knowledge — Jack Cummins
I think that you are maybe wishing to pursue more of a discussion about power and knowledge within philosophy, mainly in a secular context. However, even if my own comment is considered as irrelevant, I think that it does at least pose the question of what do we mean by esoteric? — Jack Cummins
I disqualify "esoteric knowledge" as mumbo-jumbo until and unless you give some substantial definition. What is it? — tim wood
That this is the domain of the non-academic. — baker
We are pluralistic and we welcome variety: as long as it is superficial.
The process of enslavement is complete once the enslaved believe themselves to be free. We are now our own thought-police. We actually do believe that there is one right way to do things. — baker
You think it's stopped rotting by now? — baker
Don't forget about those teleological evolutionists... OK ok, they are pretty rare actually (Pierre Teilhard de Chardin and Bergson come to mind). — emancipate
Most would probably be able to reach a surface level understanding of his theories. To reach the level of understanding of Einstein though, would likely be beyond most people's intellective capabilities.
Some individuals are able to reach levels of understanding that others cannot, through hard work and dedication, and possibly also genetic disposition. — Tzeentch
How do we and, who has power, in determining these boundaries to which we feel bound to adhere to? — Jack Cummins
it's ideas masquerading as knowledge, usually because someone is trying to sell you something. As such, a fraud and worth calling out wherever found. — tim wood
Amen! But the distinction between ideas and things still holds. Ideas can, have, do, and will make differences, but for all that they're not things. I'm on about usage and connotation, at the end meaning and significance.show me the difference it makes? — Tom Storm
Which is why I have generally defaulted to: show me the difference it makes? Show me a life transformed. The people I have met who were all about the contemplative life, searching for mystical insights were often in pretty poor shape. Jealousy, anxiety, substance use, vanity - were prevalent. The elitism inherent in the lives of many spiritually attuned folk is interesting too. People trying to demonstrate how much closer they were to understanding Taoism or Zen, or better at mediation, or more in touch with 'genuine' Gnosis - looking down on ordinary people who were wallowing in ignorant materialism, etc, etc. — Tom Storm
Gnosis would be another example of esoteric knowledge. Isn't the function of this type of knowledge a realisation that brings the knower closer to higher consciousness? — Tom Storm
Perhaps the "esoteric" in esoteric knowledge is rightly understood as meaning knowledge of ideas, meaning not knowledge of anything at all, hence not actually knowledge. — tim wood
Why "higher consciousness"? Why not instead 'altered consciousness', which we know is possible courtesy of psychedelics. If it is possible with psychedelics, then why not via other means? — Janus
What exactly does one accomplish using psychedelics? Does this count as knowledge or is it an 'experience' courtesy of some chemistry? I do think it may be possible to create this kind of effect without substances. But what does this give us - an affordable recreation opportunity when we can't afford to travel? — Tom Storm
I think expereinece with psychedelics (and meditation, the arts, fasting and other practices) can alter our ways of seeing. — Janus
I see that you emphasise esoteric knowledge as being for the 'inner circle', but I am a little unclear what you see as being the purpose of such knowledge. — Jack Cummins
In Plato's Symposium Socrates says the difference between a sage and a philosopher (Ancient Greek: φιλόσοφος, meaning lover of wisdom) was that the sage has what the philosopher seeks. While analyzing the concept of love, Socrates concludes love is that which lacks the object it seeks. Therefore, the philosopher does not have the wisdom sought, while the sage, on the other hand, does not love or seek wisdom, for it is already possessed.
Seems to indicate that ‘the sage’ is superior even to Socrates (and by implication Plato and Aristotle also). — Wayfarer
Philosophical esotericism—the practice of communicating one’s unorthodox thoughts “between the lines”—was a common practice until the end of the eighteenth century. The famous Encyclopédie of Diderot, for instance, not only discusses this practice in over twenty different articles, but admits to employing it itself. The history of Western thought contains hundreds of such statements by major philosophers testifying to the use of esoteric writing in their own work or others’. Despite this long and well-documented history, however, esotericism is often dismissed today as a rare occurrence. But by ignoring esotericism, we risk cutting ourselves off from a full understanding of Western philosophical thought. — Melzer
Isn't the function of this type of knowledge a realisation that brings the knower closer to higher consciousness? In order to accept this view one needs believe in transcendent wisdom which by definition would be at odds with a scientific worldview. — Tom Storm
What exactly is the benefit of receiving transcendent wisdom — Tom Storm
The philosopher of the Republic possessed the wisdom that that Socrates, Plato, and Aristotle sought. He exists only in speech, only in poetic images. — Fooloso4
Several of the schools of Hellenistic philosophy have the sage as a featured figure. Karl Ludwig Michelet wrote that "Greek religion culminated with its true god, the sage"; Pierre Hadot develops this idea, stating that "the moment philosophers achieve a rational conception of God based on the model of the sage, Greece surpasses its mythical representation of its gods." Indeed, the actions of the sage are propounded to be how a god would act in the same situation.
by ignoring esotericism, we risk cutting ourselves off from a full understanding of Western philosophical thought. — Melzer
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