Defining everything in it as something good and creating a juxtaposition between individualism and collectivism. Those who promote individualism often see any traces of collectivism as something bad. Yet not all collectivism is bad: that our society works there has to be some kind of collectivism, even if many collectivist ideologies do indeed have been disasterous.So what, then, is the problem with individualism? — NOS4A2
I see two major kinds of individualism which are not to be confused:So what, then, is the problem with individualism? — NOS4A2
I wonder though whether Rand's individualism is actually a case of defensive individualism. Rand's individualist is coming from a position of lack, from a position of being a prospective victim due to his exploitability (due to poverty, lack of resources). It's not the spoiled upper class individualist who was born with a silver spoon, believing that the world is his oyster.In other words, "individualists" bullshit themselves with delusions like "libertinism", "social darwinism", "metaphysical libertarianism" & "Objectivism". — 180 Proof
Man is born free and without responsibility. Responsibility can only be a result of his own voluntary actions. Responsibility is assumed, and not imposed. — Tzeentch
Man is born utterly dependent, actually, and compared to other mammals remains that way for a very long time. — praxis
Man is also a social species and is therefore irrevocably tied to others of his kind. — praxis
Right, that's the problem, not enough assuming. — praxis
Man is born into a society not a "state of nature".
— Fooloso4
What is society, and how did it take man out of this "state of nature"? — Tzeentch
Society is a group of people. — Fooloso4
Man has never lived in a state of nature. There has always been some organization, starting with the family. — Fooloso4
So what, then, is the problem with individualism? — NOS4A2
And this group of people can lay a claim to the individual's freedom or impose responsibilities, then? — Tzeentch
thenI don't think a state of nature implies an absence of families. — Tzeentch
Does that not happen where you are from? — Fooloso4
The family is a social structure with rules and differences in power. It is not freedom without constraint. — Fooloso4
Individualism here in the Anglo-American world, meaning classical liberalism & Right-Libertarianism, is B.S. and a pathology that destroys everything. You only need to see the reaction to COVID the past year to see the culmination to it. It mostly means pursue wealth at the expense of others.
I think any claims to another's essential freedom is to be looked down upon and dismissed. One of the few claims for which I think that to be the case. Would you object to this? — Tzeentch
Man is born free and without responsibility. Responsibility can only be a result of his own voluntary actions. Responsibility is assumed, and not imposed. — Tzeentch
What if your ability to live where, in the manner in which you've become accustomed and act as you please and state what you state is the sole result of claiming the essential freedoms of another? — Outlander
So, you don't quite believe this, you believe in protecting a familiar status quo that serves you and little more, just another case of looking out for number one. — Outlander
If a person is actually free then they can freely assume responsibility. So why is there such an apparent lack of it? — praxis
It seems to be the case that only when accept the fact that we’re not free, accept our interdependence, that we may tend to become more responsible. And because we’re a social species this acceptance may provide meaning and an enhanced sense of well-being, feeling part of something greater than ourselves. — praxis
I just don't believe any of it to be legitimate. — Tzeentch
As such, certain individuals benefitted while others were mostly restrained — NOS4A2
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