As it is, many do not believe in God, or any supernatural power. Humanity, in many ways, stands before a godless abyss, struggling to know what to do next, in order to survive... — Jack Cummins
I didn't know that Telhard de Chardin saw categorised life in that way, but it seems similar to the theosophists. My own feeling is that I sometimes feel that objects around me seem alive, especially when my books and CDs fall over in my room. However, I wonder to see extent it is that our consciousness affects the objects, as if we are having an interaction with the energy fields. I definitely think we are within complex fields of energy, and Einstein stressed the participant observer role in experiments, so it would seem likely to me that the underlying principle extends to life in general. — Jack Cummins
Quantum Theory Demonstrated: Observation Affects Reality ...https://www.sciencedaily.com › releases › 1998/02
Feb 27, 1998 — "observer's" capacity to detect electrons increased, in other words, when the level of the observation went up, the interference weakened; in contrast, when its capacity to detect ...
Missing: participant | Must include: participant — Science Daily
God doesn't have to be a person. In Platonism, and to some extent in Christianity, God is the (impersonal) principle of truth, goodness, beauty, order and justice. When we stop believing in something higher than ourselves we end up with slogans like "love your sweat" (and possibly other substances starting with "s") which is where our raw, animal instincts come into play (we don't love anything more than wallowing in them) and we divide our lives between the gym and the rally and become pawns on the chessboard of political and commercial interests while imagining that we're "empowered" and that we "rule the world". Psychological manipulation is very easy for those who are experts at it and when you have nothing higher to believe in than your own sweat and righteous anger, you can fall pray to it before you even know it. — Apollodorus
I just watched an awesome program about what can happen when we speak to our hearts and listen to our hearts. When we live in our heads, what we think reality is can be pretty dark. More animal desire and fear than the love and freedom we can experience when connecting with our hearts. We might think of the heart consciousness as a spiritual force and see in many spiritual traditions, including Christianity, the rituals people practice to connect with this force. A few days ago I watched a program about Evangelical Christians and they were obviously connected with the spiritual force and there is no way we are going to convince the people who experience this that there is not a God and a reality that is different from the reality we create in our heads, of desires and fears. — Athena
I see what you mean, but we mustn't be too harsh on Christianity. The Church banned animal sacrifices and blood sports. Besides, it could have been worse, just think of Islamic State or Communist Russia. Science has advantages and disadvantages and without the support of a more traditional faith society turns to all kinds of weird cults invented by fraudsters and commercial interests. — Apollodorus
Yes, desires and fears are fundamental to human psychology. They can take hold of our mind and obscure our heart. Both love (or infatuation) and hatred can make us blind. Even worse when they are used by others to manipulate, control and enslave us. This is why various traditions from Greek philosophy to Christianity have recommended methods of controlling desires and fears by developing virtues (ἀρετή, arete) such as temperance and courage. Once desires and fears have been brought under control, the eye of the heart opens and sees the higher realities and beauties of spirit. To use Plato's parable, once well-trained, the horses of the soul's chariot pull us upward and we ascend to the higher realms instead of constantly being pulled down to earth. — Apollodorus
Really, I see my question as going back to the whole tradition of Greek mystery schools. — Jack Cummins
Well, on the other thread I was accused of being a "Nazi", so you'll have to be careful what you say. But I agree that we could all do with more love and less war. Enough political sloganeering, activism and rallies. Just relax with a pint of cool Prussian beer, although Bavarian wouldn’t be bad either.
As to the church, I don’t really attend except for necessities like weddings and funerals.
What can we do to get us back on track with democracy? Good question. My answer would be with a parable from the Bible (Matthew 13:25-40) about the enemy who sowed tares or weeds among the wheat while the farmer slept. Ignorance is a form of sleep that prevents us from identifying the enemy, seeing through his plans and taking steps to stop him. People need to wake up and stay wide awake, aware and alert at all times and encourage others to do the same.
The first thing to wake up to, from a Christian point of view, is the fact that the Church has been hijacked and taken over by political and financial groups who are using it as an instrument of subversion. We need to build a new Church, a Church of the people, a Church of true believers.
But I feel Jack Cummins is getting a bit impatient with us and would (rightly) like to reclaim his thread, so maybe we can discuss this elsewhere.
a day ago
Jack CumminsAccepted Answer
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↪Apollodorus
I am not getting impatient with your discussions at all. You have made good contributions. I created the thread with the aim of opening up any possible conversations which may arise. I am just extremely pleased that the thread is still going and it is the second longest one I have created so far, and I think that there is probably more mystery to be discussed. Really, I see my question as going back to the whole tradition of Greek mystery schools — Apollodorus
I do live with a sense that I need to create myself as a better person, and hopefully do some good that will make everyone's lives better now and in the future. — Athena
However, it is probably better than us reading and thinking about our ideas completely alone, in isolation. — Jack Cummins
That pretty much encapsulates what philosophy is about.
As for reincarnation, and I think this also touches on Jack Cummins' observation, it was a theory that operated on more than just one level. One of the aims of Greek philosophy was to expand man's consciousness, or "open the eye of the heart", to higher realities. Thinking of reincarnation, even as a theoretical possibility, served the purpose of expanding human consciousness in the same way astronomy (which was also an important element in philosophy) focused the mind on the heavenly world above. In other words, reincarnation served a very important psychological and spiritual purpose. Accomplished philosophers were no ordinary men, they were qualified and experienced spiritual masters and guides who knew what their were doing, hence the paramount importance of the master-disciple relationship. This can sometimes be difficult to appreciate for modern man who either has no access to a qualified teacher or who, following the default approach of materialistic, consumer-orientated society, thinks he can construct his own philosophy or spiritual "ladder to heaven" from bits of materials gleaned from the Internet or from books. This is not to discourage individual effort. As they say, when the disciple is ready the teacher, in whatever form or shape including life itself, appears. But it remains that there is a qualitative difference between learning by yourself and learning under a teacher or in a group which means that misinterpretation or misunderstanding of original sources or teachings can happen rather more easily than we think. — Apollodorus
I went through a time when I really wondered a lot about reincarnation, but I am not sure that it is possible to know for sure at all. As it is, I agree with your focus on how 'to create myself as a better person.' That is not to say that I don't think reincarnation is an interesting question, in the wider one of life after death. At least, it would not leave us floating around as entities, without bodies. — Jack Cummins
As it is, many do not believe in God, or any supernatural power. Humanity, in many ways, stands before a godless abyss, struggling to know what to do next, in order to survive... — Jack Cummins
My own experience is that many secular people live calm, rational lives, with few concerns about metaphysics and epistemology and still manage to live deeply and thoughtfully, rarely being too concerned by questions of transcendent meaning. — Tom Storm
There are several mysteries which seem essential to the philosophical quest; the existence of God, free will and, life after death. These seem to be central to philosophy. Endless books have been written on these subjects. However, no one seems to have come up with any clear answers, and it seems to me that they remain as unsolved mysteries. We all contemplate these aspects of life, but it does seem that there are no definitive answers. Perhaps the whole aspect of mysteries is central to philosophy and what keeps us searching. Are they unfathomable mysteries, beyond human understanding? — Jack Cummins
As to free will, I believe I am free, because I experience myself (within obvious limits) as being so, and I see insufficient reasons from science to believe otherwise. — Janus
Rather, from the pov of experience, the book titles that appear in your conscious awareness seem arbitrary (of course, once you have a few titles in mind you are apparently free to select one, but it's not clear how free that 'choice' is, if at all). — emancipate
You have a good motto. — emancipate
As I understand philosophy and democracy they go together. — Athena
Generally, I find discussing ideas on this forum, but I am trying to be a bit reserved and cautious about how much I talk about certain ideas, like reincarnation. I have probably shared more in certain threads than I should have done, and I ended up feeling stressed out with some responses I received. I am just saying that because you are new to the forum, and there are some people who can become fairly hostile. Obviously, it is entirely up to you how much you share. At the moment, I am trying to be a bit more cautious than usual. — Jack Cummins
Hegel is not a philosopher. He is no lover or seeker of wisdom — he believes he has found it. Hegel writes in the preface to the Phenomenology of Spirit, “To help bring philosophy closer to the form of Science, to the goal where it can lay aside the title of ‘love of knowing’ and be actual knowledge — that is what I have set before me” (Miller, 3; PC, 3). By the end of the Phenomenology, Hegel claims to have arrived at Absolute Knowledge, which he identifies with wisdom.
Hegel’s claim to have attained wisdom is completely contrary to the original Greek conception of philosophy as the love of wisdom, that is, the ongoing pursuit rather than the final possession of wisdom. His claim is, however, fully consistent with the ambitions of the Hermetic tradition, a current of thought that derives its name from the so-called Hermetica (or Corpus Hermeticum), a collection of Greek and Latin treatises and dialogues written in the first or second centuries A.D. and probably containing ideas that are far older. The legendary author of these works is Hermes Trismegistus (“Thrice-Greatest Hermes”). “Hermeticism” denotes a broad tradition of thought that grew out of the “writings of Hermes” and was expanded and developed through the infusion of various other traditions. Thus, alchemy, Kabbalism, Lullism, and the mysticism of Eckhart and Cusa — to name just a few examples — became intertwined with the Hermetic doctrines. (Indeed, Hermeticism is used by some authors simply to mean alchemy.) Hermeticism is also sometimes called theosophy, or esotericism; less precisely, it is often characterized as mysticism, or occultism.
It is the thesis of this book that Hegel is a Hermetic thinker. I shall show that there are striking correspondences between Hegelian philosophy and Hermetic theosophy, and that these correspondences are not accidental. Hegel was actively interested in Hermeticism, he was influenced by its exponents from boyhood on, and he allied himself with Hermetic movements and thinkers throughout his life. I do not argue merely that we can understand Hegel as a Hermetic thinker, just as we can understand him as a German or a Swabian or an idealist thinker. Instead, I argue that we must understand Hegel as a Hermetic thinker, if we are to truly understand him at all.
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