I wrote a rant but deleted it. It was beneath me.

I find there cannot be reasonable debate unless and until the person I would engage with publicly and sincerely turns their back on Trump and the alleged theft of the election. There is only one real place to have an intelligent, moderated debate on the record. The Republicans pursued that avenue in several different venues and they lost. Donald Trump continues to insist he won. He is a loser, and a bad one at that.

One might ask, why not argue other points? Ask Elizabeth Cheney or any other member of the Republican Party who has not prostrated themselves before Trump. I will argue conservative principles and issues with them all day long. As for anyone else, they must first state: "Donald J. Trump lost, he is a loser, and a bad one at that." Then I will engage.

The tax rate being high worked it's magic long before the tax shenanigans kicked in in response. The taxes loop holes came along and then we cut taxes on top of that, for a double down for the rich and a double fking for everyone else. — James Riley

High taxes kill motivation, innovation, and lastly, economies.

You want money in the hands of private people, NOT the government (who can only make things worse). Remember, it is the government that creates all the laws that favor the wealthy. The best outcome in any society is to increase opportunity to succeed and minimize corruption. The larger the government, the more corruption.

Life was really difficult for everybody, not just the working class.
— synthesis

No, the wealthy lived large. Weird that you don't acknowledge that. — praxis

Most people died before they were 40.

No such thing as equality. Not even close.
— synthesis

There is such a thing. It's just that those with an advantage don't want it. — praxis

Oh really. Are you going to make beautiful people average looking? Are you going to make really intelligent people less smart? Are you going to make really nice people not so nice? How about really coordinated people (great athletes)? Make them average?

Whereas you see equality as a utopia, it is in reality the ultimate dystopia

Give people the greatest opportunity to succeed. That's the best any system can do..

I wrote a rant but deleted it. It was beneath me. — James Riley

I thought it was a pretty good rant. :) I would have had fun with it!

I find there cannot be reasonable debate unless and until the person I would engage with publicly and sincerely turns their back on Trump and the alleged theft of the election. There is only one real place to have an intelligent, moderated debate on the record. The Republicans pursued that avenue in several different venues and they lost. Donald Trump continues to insist he won. He is a loser, and a bad one at that. — James Riley

You've got to get over the Trump thing and move on. Look how lame Hillary has been with her blathering about how Trump stole the election from her and he was an illegitimate president.

The biggest mistake people make in their lives is in not being able to leave the past in the past. It's over, time to move forward.

One might ask, why not argue other points? Ask Elizabeth Cheney or any other member of the Republican Party who has not prostrated themselves before Trump. I will argue conservative principles and issues with them all day long. As for anyone else, they must first state: "Donald J. Trump lost, he is a loser, and a bad one at that." Then I will engage. — James Riley

I do not consider myself a political person but I will debate the conservative point of view with you because I believe the Left is incredibly mis-guided.

I'll start. Government is necessary but you must limit government to the smallest size possible. The reasons are multiple...gross economic inefficiencies and the direct relationship between size and corruption levels within government, to name a couple.

You've got to get over the Trump thing and move on. Look how lame Hillary has been with her blathering about how Trump stole the election from her and he was an illegitimate president.

The biggest mistake people make in their lives is in not being able to leave the past in the past. It's over, time to move forward. — synthesis

The mistake in your reasoning has already been dealt with. It is not the left that can't get over it. It's the right. Hell, they're still whining about Bill Clinton, Hillary Clinton, and Obama. Confess and you will feel better and we can then move on to the debate of the substantive issues.

I do not consider myself a political person but I will debate the conservative point of view with you because I believe the Left is incredibly mis-guided.

I'll start. Government is necessary but you must limit government to the smallest size possible. The reasons are multiple...gross economic inefficiencies and the direct relationship between size and corruption levels within government, to name a couple. — synthesis

Again, until you admit Trump lost, is a loser, and a sore loser, we can't debate the real issues. I've already spanked you, un-rebutted, on the issues regarding cost externalization, etc. It is not the left that can't get over it. Ask the Arizona Republican Party, Desantis, and all the people who continue to insist he did not lose, is not a loser, and is not a sore loser. The reason this is so important, and not merely some petulant winner refusing to be magnanimous in victory, is because an assault was laid on the United States of America and the assault continues as long as the blatant lie continues.

Confess your sins of, if not voting for or supporting him (I don't know), then for failing to reject him out loud for the world to see. Go ahead, it will be cathartic.

Until you confess your sins to the public, no reasonable person would teach you how wrong you are on the merits. Your failure to confess has brought this on you. Jefferson Davis may or may not support Day Care, but I wouldn't talk to him about it until he admitted that slavery and racism is an abomination and that he was patently wrong for having aided and abetted it.

Again, until you admit Trump lost, is a loser, and a sore loser, we can't debate the real issues. — James Riley

The only thing I care about is freedom. Whomever supports the most individual freedom, I am leaning towards that side.

Of course Trump lost. So what?

Until you confess your sins to the public, no reasonable person would teach you how wrong you are on the merits. Your failure to confess has brought this on you. Jefferson Davis may or may not support Day Care, but I wouldn't talk to him about it until he admitted that slavery and racism is an abomination and that he was patently wrong for having aided and abetted it. — James Riley

I have no idea what you are talking about.

I have no idea what you are talking about. — synthesis

I know.

You think you know me? You're incapable of knowing yourself!

Debate me and I'll show you why.

Of course Trump lost. So what? — synthesis

I've already explained "so what." But since you have no idea what I'm talking about, I'll take another stab at it:

It's important the reasonable people who admit he lost, is a loser, and is a sore loser (Cheney, Romney, etc.), be distinguished from the stupid people who think he won, is a winner and a great winner. The former might be able to be reasoned with. The latter are enemies of the United States. We should confirm their worst Q suspicions of us, round them up, put them on trains, and send them to re-education camps to learn the exalted ways of communism. LOL!

Seriously though: Even Trump may reasonably know he lost, and is a loser. What he is calling being a "victim" of the left (and what all reasonable people call being a sore loser) may be a calculated way to drum up money and base support for 2024, but that is what renders him unworthy of reasonable debate. He is sewing the seeds of an unnecessary civil war. That makes him and his apologists enemies of the United States, ala Jefferson Davis.

Debate me and I'll show you why. — synthesis

You keep raising the ante. Now you must go forth among your kind and preach, like a disciple, the error of the ways of Trump and his spawn.

↪James Riley You think you know me? You're incapable of knowing yourself!

Debate me and I'll show you why.[/quote]

Side bar. Not saying I didn't say it, but can you cite me to where I said that?

You keep raising the ante. Now you must go forth among your kind and preach, like a disciple, the error of the ways of Trump and his spawn. — James Riley

My kind? :) Enough with the bullshit. Do you want to debate or not?

My kind? :) Enough with the bullshit. Do you want to debate or not? — synthesis

Yes, your kind.

I don't want to debate with an unreasonable person. I'm vetting the sincerity of your curiosity. Again, can you show me where I said what you quoted me as saying? I'm not saying I didn't say it, but my limited search skills of page 6 & 7 did not turn it up.

Again, can you show me where I said what you quoted me as saying? I'm not saying I didn't say it, but my limited search skills of page 6 & 7 did not turn it up. — James Riley

This is an example of how you have difficulties moving on, but I will humor you.

From what you had written, you thought I was a Trump supporter. I didn't vote for Trump. I don't like him or any politician but that doesn't mean I disagree with all of his policies. This is not a black and white world.

This is an example of how you have difficulties moving on, but I will humor you. — synthesis

Are you saying I said that, or not? If I said it, fine. Show me where I said it. If not, then why should I "move on"? Are you saying I should ignore a lie.

Would you have me move on from an insurrectionist, or any other wrong-doer and just pretend it didn't happen? Can you distinguish between past acts and ongoing acts?

Are you saying I should sit down and discuss the merits of "truth" with Joe Goebbels? Day Care with Jefferson Davis? Making the trains run on time with Mussolini? Military efficiency with Hitler? Sorry, but I won't do that. They and their followers must, at the very least, confess their sins, show contrition and make amends. If the GQP wants to save itself, it must follow leaders like Cheney and Romney, and punish leaders like Trump, Desantis, et al. Until then, don't be surprised if they don't get a seat at the table with the adults and the reasonable people, the debaters and the seekers of truth.

Life was really difficult for everybody, not just the working class.
— synthesis

No, the wealthy lived large. Weird that you don't acknowledge that.
— praxis

Most people died before they were 40. — synthesis

Still denying that the wealthy lived well? That your prerogative I suppose.

Whereas you see equality as a utopia, it is in reality the ultimate dystopia — synthesis

From what I understand wokeness is majorly about equal justice and it seems perfectly reasonable to me to get as close to that as possible. Perhaps you wouldn’t be so content with the current state of affairs if you weren’t a white male living in Southern California.

From what I understand wokeness is majorly about equal justice and it seems perfectly reasonable to me to get as close to that as possible. Perhaps you wouldn’t be so content with the current state of affairs if you weren’t a white male living in Southern California. — praxis

If that's the case, they are not doing a very good job of presenting it. They seem like a bunch of spoiled four year old's.

Life is what it is. Would you feel better if I joined you guys and was completely miserable? You can't help very many people being miserable. You have to see (and enjoy) the good things in life, as well.

I have worked very hard and live a nice but modest life. Remember, most people in SoCal are not wealthy (as a matter of fact, they are struggling as it is not the cheapest place in the world to live...I am here for the weather :)

Would you have me move on from an insurrectionist, or any other wrong-doer and just pretend it didn't happen? — James Riley

Look, I just enjoy chatting with people who really believe in something...ANYTHING! If you would like to talk and are ready to descend from your pulpit, that would be great. Otherwise, let's move on.

One other thing...in life, you cannot control what everybody else is doing so, yes, there are many times when bad things happen and that's just the way it goes. If you can't let things go, you will end up being very unhappy (and that won't help anybody).

There are many wonderful things in life. Take some time and enjoy them.

Balance is the way.

Would you feel better if I joined you guys and was completely miserable? — synthesis

I'd feel a better if you took the hyperbole down a notch or two. It's way past tedious.

I'm a white guy living a nice but modest life in S Cali too, and unwoke as well. You don't need to be woke to care about equal rights and the like.

If you can't let things go, you will end up being very unhappy (and that won't help anybody). — synthesis

If you can't answer questions, or admit when you are wrong, you might think you are happy (I'm sure Trump does), but it won't help yourself or anybody.

So, did you, or did you not say I said something I did not say? I may have said it. Hell, if I cared enough to think about it, I might have even agreed with the sentiment. But that is not the point. If you are a liar, misquoting people, then, like the RQP that fails to admit Trump lost and is a loser and a sore loser at that, it' would be futile for me to engage on the merits of any issue.

The utilization of the term, "woke", is just a way for anti-racist activists to popularize the Black Lives Mater Movement on social media platforms, like Twitter. Though ultimately a publicity initiative, it seems extraordinarily doubtful to me that it could, at all, result in a dystopic society that you could find in science fiction.

The Right, particularly the alt-Right, seems to be so inclined to excessively criticize any utilization of a popular idiom or ethos on the part of the Left, despite, themselves being completely reliant upon the proliferation of thought-terminating clichés.

While I am willing to admit that there are occasions where the invocation of things like "white privilege" in activist circles can occasionally effectuate the internal policing of the community, the relentless examples that the Right attempts to make out of such instances is nothing but ironically, as this is, perhaps, their favorite talking point, indicative of a complete and total double standard.

I'm a white guy living a nice but modest life in S Cali too, and unwoke as well. You don't need to be woke to care about equal rights and the like. — praxis

I have never known anybody who doesn't care about equal rights. It's part of what being an American is about. The problem is that the Left desires equality of outcome which is impossible (and undesirable). People are diverse in all kinds of ways. This is a political power/money grab as are all organized activities.

Any way you slice it, you have to earn your keep in this world. To expect others to take care of you is the short road to hell. Only the elite seem to get away with it (but eventually, they gets their's, as well).

Your thinking is pre-Kantian. It is normal for you to be anti-Marxist. You remind me of my father. Two days before he died he realized that he had worked his entire existence and had barely enjoyed life. He lived as others used to and he thought that he had made a decision that belonged to others. You boast that you have done a lot of Zen Buddhism (which seems silly to me, it's better to sleep). You should read "Idea for a universal history with a cosmopolitan purpose" by I. Kant. He will do you good.

While I am willing to admit that there are occasions where the invocation of things like "white privilege" in activist circles can occasionally effectuate the internal policing of the community, the relentless examples that the Right attempts to make out of such instances is nothing but ironically, as this is, perhaps, their favorite talking point, indicative of a complete and total double standard. — thewonder

You have a group of people who have decided that another group of people are all racist.

This will not end well.

What is most interesting about these discussion forums is that people actually believe they know you. You don't know me at all. You know nothing about me other than what I have shared (and how much could you know about that?).

I've lived a great life and would do very little differently. People need to tend to their own lives and not be so concerned with others. I just try to introduce different points of view because it might be interesting to chat about with people. Nothing more.

The main problem is those who acquiesce, grovel, and alter the world according to the woke vision, mostly for fear of losing some profits or reputation. This behavior has exacerbated the problem, and if it were to end, the whole scheme would collapse.

It's especially bizarre for those of us who grew up in the 50's/60's/70's and were aware of what was taking place in the Soviet Union and Maoist China. It was like these places existed on a different planet.

Now it's here (in its nascent incarnation) and it's ugly.

So-called cancel culture is pretty much a milquetoast struggle session, so the comparison between the woke and the red guard is apt.