Is this an attempt at the Chewbacca Defense?From the statement "I have a degree" it doesn't logically follow that atheists can't have a hope that there is no God or that they can't have a fear of the idea of God. — Apollodorus
Ask psychologists and they'll tel you. — Apollodorus
180 Proof's degree in psychology is relevant to this:
Ask psychologists and they'll tel you.
— Apollodorus — InPitzotl
You offered a pretense of a rebuttal to this, but none of it had to do with what's on the table.Ask psychologists and they'll tel you. — Apollodorus
That's quite a different goal post than this:And it doesn't justify his objection to my suggestion that some atheists may be motivated by a feeling of fear. — Apollodorus
I believe that's a big element in atheism. Atheists are afraid of the thought of there being anything higher than themselves hence they hope there isn't. — Apollodorus
That doesn't quite sound correct to me. What is your reasoning behind it?Normally, when you hope for something not to happen, you do so out of fear of it happening. — Apollodorus
In the particulars, that's not on the table (see above).Does a degree in psych disprove that? — Apollodorus
Sorry, but you're running all over the place. What is on the table is that 180 Proof's degree in psychology is relevant to this:
Ask psychologists and they'll tel you.
— Apollodorus
You offered a pretense of a rebuttal to this, but none of it had to do with what's on the table. — InPitzotl
Talking out of your ass, Apollodorus, is a condition called "logorrhea", there's medicine for that – dialectics — 180 Proof
Wrong. In your view:In my view, holding a "degree in cognitive psych" has nothing to do with anything. — Apollodorus
...psychologists corroborate your story. You're being disingenuous.Ask psychologists and they'll tel you. — Apollodorus
.psychologists corroborate your story. You're being disingenuous. — InPitzotl
Fer chrissakes! :lol:And if by "dialectics" you mean Marxism, I don't need that, thank you very much.
Professional psychologists hold degrees in psychology. You were arguing that the degree was irrelevant.You don't get it, do you? I meant a professional psychologist not someone holding a degree in psychology. — Apollodorus
No, you're claiming that it doesn't mean anything. But of course it means something. I have a degree in math (minor) and computer science (major); in obtaining these, I have learned about math and computer science beyond the high school level. 180 Proof has a degree in cognitive psychology; that implies analogously that 180 Proof should have learned about those things in attaining his degree.As I said, anyone can have a degree in anything. That doesn't mean anything. — Apollodorus
You're as religiously well-read, dude, as you're philosophically ignorant and fallacious (though, to your credit, not disingenuous). — 180 Proof
A proper, rational response to a challenge is to give support. You're not doing that. Your response to a challenge is to try to attack the challengers, not support your views. — InPitzotl
Avoid epistemic double standards... whatever burden you think the "other guy" has in proving you wrong had better be a burden you met yourself to make the claim in the first place.As for your "degree in cognitive psych" we can see of what value that is in proving your point. — Apollodorus
That's possible.As I said, you're wasting your time. — Apollodorus
You're misinterpreting. Here's what you're doing:I haven't noticed anyone "attacking you" at all so I've no idea what you're talking about. — Apollodorus
...you're morphing what I did say into something easier to refute... you're doing this in reaction to being challenged. Nowhere did I make the claim that atheists have no hopes or fears.Claiming that atheists have no hopes or fears is just irrational. — Apollodorus
Of course I realize atheists have hopes and fears. They're just people.Even you ought to realize that. But never mind. — Apollodorus
...there's a gigantic leap between an atheist having an irrational fear of spiders and hoping his favorite restaurant is still open, to it being a big part of atheism that atheists are afraid of the thought of there being something higher than themselves.I believe that's a big element in atheism. Atheists are afraid of the thought of there being anything higher than themselves hence they hope there isn't. — Apollodorus
Of course I realize atheists have hopes and fears. They're just people — InPitzotl
I believe that's a big element in atheism. Atheists are afraid of the thought of there being anything higher than themselves hence they hope there isn't. — Apollodorus
I've known quite a few principled nonbelievers online and offline over the decades and none have resembled your disingenuous caricature — 180 Proof
Those two things are separated by only one post in this thread; 180 Proof's post. The quote I have from 180 Proof is the exact quote you gave in your reply to him.People do tend to be reluctant to admit their own fears but that doesn't mean that those fears don't exist. Ask psychologists and they'll tel you. — Apollodorus
...you simply mean an atheist's irrational fear of spiders. But I find it suspicious that you should pretend you did.So why deny it? — Apollodorus
My reading is this: — InPitzotl
Do atheists actively not want God to exist? — Georgios Bakalis
That does me no good. It's possible that I'm wrong, but the reading is direct, so it's justified. The justification from a straightforward reading of the text is also pretty solid... I'm not quote mining, and I'm following the precise chain of replies, including even the specific text you chose to quote.Yeah, I know what your reading is but if it's wrong it's wrong. You can't make a wrong right. — Apollodorus
I've multiple agendas here. Dissuading bad epistemic practices is one.So, what's your agenda? — Apollodorus
Where does this claim come from? What does it mean for it to be true? Under what conditions do we say it's true? Do those conditions hold? Under what conditions do we say it's false? Since you mentioned psychologists, I am not a psychologist, but as I'm aware we can actually test for fear responses... can we test fear responses for the thought of higher beings? Or we can sanity check this... what does "higher" even mean here... does it suggest atheists would be scared of SETI? If so, how come atheists in practice tend to be interested in SETI?I believe that's a big element in atheism. Atheists are afraid of the thought of there being anything higher than themselves hence they hope there isn't. — Apollodorus
...because you're not discussing it seriously. You're not saying "my opinion is backed by this psychology study". You're not explaining the fear response. You're not defining what you mean by a higher power.Why not say something that makes sense for a change and then we carry on the conversation like two grown ups instead of resorting to kindergarten tricks that don't lead anywhere. — Apollodorus
Why does it not make sense to you that in order to have your opinion treated seriously, you must first support it?Why not say something that makes sense for a change — Apollodorus
You're not saying "my opinion is backed by this psychology study". — InPitzotl
You have a warped view of what's going on.Neither are you. — Apollodorus
I don't really have to provide it; it's already here in the forum. Anyone can click on that "7", that "8", and that "9", and confirm what I saw for themselves... that you have offered no support for your opinion.How can you demand of others what you yourself are unable to provide? — Apollodorus
Sure. But you don't need to be taken seriously either.And I don't need to defend anything. — Apollodorus
I have made a claim as well. I have claimed that you have not supported your claim. My claim is testable; had you offered support for theory, it would appear in the two pages of post history here on this board. That can be scanned in minutes. Such a scan reveals a lack of support for your claim. — InPitzotl
I only ever mention my cog. psych. master's to counter fatuous asides like this one and ad hominem insinuations such as "fear" as a motive for holding one position or another. Only someone without the requisite intellectual competence to defeat, or even validly challenge, a position s/he disagrees with resorts to spurious psychologizing and projection like you do/have done. My CV is not an argument; that's just me calling you out epistemically on your bullshit, Apollodoofus.Ask psychologists and they'll te[ll] you. — Apollodorus
So the troll confesses! (Kiss of death (banning) on a philosophy forum – or ought to be) Okay. I won't waste anymore of your time or my own on you, Apollodoofus, here or on any other thread. Good fuckin' luck with that.I don't need to support anything ... — Apollodorus
I only ever mention my cog. psych. master's to counter fatuous asides like this one and ad hominem insinuations such as "fear" as a motive for holding one position or another. — 180 Proof
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