The plan is mostly in the pudding — StreetlightX

You have really undermined yourself there with that incredibly trite turn of phrase in such dark times. #clap emoji

Your desperation is showing, mate. All the better for anyone who can see it in full flight.

I said they are not interchangeable with any Arabs — StreetlightX

What differentiates them from other Arabs? Genetics certainly doesn't in fact genetics shows that all Jews including the defamed Ashkenazi's are closely related to Arabs more than Europeans. So you are pitting closely genetically related Middle Eastern people against each other. Would you like to add a blood libel with your tea?

I think that there should be established an Israeli and Palestinian state along what people generally call the "'67 borders" and eventual state with equal rights for Israelis and Palestinians.

All the better for me. — StreetlightX

I thought you were concerned with other people other than yourself. Quelle surprise.

I think that there should be established an Israeli and Palestinian state along what people generally call the "'67 borders" and eventual state with equal rights for Israelis and Palestinians. — thewonder

And what makes your opinion relevant? (Not to be rude)

What differentiates them from other Arabs? — Andrew4Handel

The same thing that distinguishes any people belonging to a geographical area - the fact that they have lived there, and that the land which Israel is stealing from them is theirs.

I don't think you understand. If they issue another threat, it's not going to be those Lenin boys. They only have one party to come after me with. It is only the far-Right in the Mafia. You know this. We're not playing a game of chess. I am telling you that information will be given to every party whom I find for it to be relevant to if you spread misinformation about my person. You will be declared a Fascist collaborator. Those are the rules of this game. You are right. I am desperate.

Leave now.

I don't know what you are talking about.

the land which Israel is stealing from them is theirs. — StreetlightX

How can you steal something from someone that doesn't belong to them? Does a cow being turned into a burger belong to you. Does a plant growing in the wild belong to you. What belongs to you and why?

How can a "outraged" position be based on such a shallow unanalytic version of reality? As it is not my position I can't help you there but I really hope the Israeli's defeat this kind of (whatever) propaganda.

I don't know what you are talking about. — StreetlightX

We agree for once.

Of course you don't. You don't even moderate this forum. You are affiliated with a set of left-wing intellectuals who are antagonistic towards my person. I would like to put our dispute aside. They do not agree to doing so. They keep engaging in crypto-Fascist mafia collaboration so as to put me in a bad sort of way. I have made it so that they can't do this unless they spread misinformation. Seeing that I am here, how that misinformation could be spread is through you. You are not going to do so. I have just told you why. This is how I deal with people who let the social ecology of the world turn into a Sartrean hell because of what is thought to be "cool".

Wonder, you're just a username to me. I barely know anything about you, and I don't read most of what you write. Nothing personal - I don't read the majority of what people write on the forum. I think you might need to take a mental break from it. If you would like to chat about this further, PM me, as I'd rather not have this thread be derailed.

I thought you were an antinatalist? — Andrew4Handel

Not anymore.

Are you going to support the right of Arabs/Palestinians to have 14 children whilst living in a cave? — Andrew4Handel

No. Having kids you can't provide for is wrong by most traditional moral systems no?

They don't have the right to have children I misphrased by saying "we have a right" — Andrew4Handel

Ah ok, so that one was a misphrasing. The other two? You think moral systems are invalid yet advertise your AN. You think there is no basis on which to condemn yet you condemn people for having children.

If their are rights the primary one is not to exist because some other selfish narc wants children. — Andrew4Handel

Why would you think that? I would think "Not getting murdered" or something like that would come first. What's your argument that that one should be prominent?

But just to make sure we're on the same page here, this is all in the ridiculous scenario the people have rights at all right? I mean, what a ridiculous notion! But if it were the case somehow, the primary right would be not to exist because......

The lack of rights favours no one. Moral nihilism favours no one. Reality is anarchist and your position may survive or it may not. — Andrew4Handel

Sure I can agree with all that.

No one can defend their position using nature. — Andrew4Handel

I don't know. Seems pretty natural to claim humans have rights and to do everything one can to enforce those. I don't think there has ever been a society where people didn't have rights of some sort.

Anyone supporting Islam to me is a child abuser. — Andrew4Handel

I'm interested in knowing why. I don't see how you can despise christianity and islam but love judaism. They're in the same "family".

How can you steal something from someone that doesn't belong to them? — Andrew4Handel

Palestinian land belongs to Palestinians. And by every metric outside of Israeli settler colonialist fanaticism, the theft of that land is illegal.

He's going to claim people don't own land now, until someone starts trespassing in his house. He has a habit of using certain concepts (rights, moral condemnation, etc) to make an argument then immediately turn around and question those same concepts he required to make his argument a second ago once anyone else uses them.

Palestinian land belongs to Palestinians. — StreetlightX

Who are the Palestinians and what legitimizes you to make this statement? Who made you the person who decides what belongs whom?

Israeli terrorists simply admitting to stealing land.

Who made you the person who decides what belongs whom? — Andrew4Handel

I'm not the one deciding on anything - at this point I'm simply deferring to international law.

And in any case this appeal to abstraction 'what really is anything anyway?' is disingenuous. The fact of the matter is that Israeli settler colonialism is a project of terrorism, insofar as it consists of forced displacement along with the upholding and maintenance of consistent conditions of misery upon Palestinian people.

He's going to claim people don't own land now, until someone starts trespassing in his house. — khaled

I spent a few Years In British Prisons. You don't know me. I know what persecution eviction and disenfranchisement is is. I don't own where I live and never know when I might be evicted. What about you?

I am a gay person the only non Christian in my Immediate family. You don't know me.

At least he's honest. I'd rather have a Jewish Israeli like that than the two-faced bullshit where they pretend to want peace (I'm looking at Likud for starters).

I'm simply deferring to international law. — StreetlightX

Why the hell would you do that?

What convinced you international law had any authority?

Since when has any international body prevented genocide?

Without international law, the Israelis wouldn't have a right to self-determination or any need to respect their borders. So let's go with that in which case Israel has no right to exist. Idiot.

I'm simply deferring — StreetlightX

That is actually the biggest lie of this whole thread deferring your prejudices to someone else.

Since when has any international body prevented genocide? — Andrew4Handel

Well insofar as Israel is ignoring international law and committing genocide, you're right that it's not particularly effective at the moment. Nor alot of other moments. Nonetheless, it's on the right side of recognizing that Israeli settler colonialism is a project that is terroristic through and through.

If you claim to own part of the middle east should you be overpopulate it and stretch the limited resources and make you children live in need....NO — Andrew4Handel

But you should be allowed to pool your money to buy fighter jets and bomb some people into submission as retaliation for the past and present deeds of some other group of people, which probably overlaps, though not perfectly, with the the bombed group.

It's hard to not see a performative contradiction between you saying "it's all fictions, we're just pretentious animals" while at the same time explicitly and vehemently arguing for the right to exercise violence in the defense of a number of these fictions (the fiction of jewish religion, the fiction of a jewish people and the fiction of a state called Israel).

Why do you care to take a position in a conflict between fictions? And why take specifically the side that, as a matter of practical fact, causes more death and destruction in the pursuit of its fictions then the other?

lWithout international law, the Israelis wouldn't have a right to self-determination or any need to respect their borders. So let's go with that in which case Israel has no right to exist. Idiot. — Benkei

The UN is Israel's biggest enemy it has only survived thanks to the USA themselves and my country of occupation the UK. Have you actually read a history book? Which country issued the Balfour declaration? Yours?

Please give me one philosophical reason to accept the UN's edicts or anyone else's. Or this bizarre phantom international law.

I don't see how any of that responds to what I said. You don't know me either, but I won't randomly start throwing my life events at you as an "argument".

My point was you keep arguing using certain concepts then immediately question them when someone else uses them. An example was "right" but that was a "misphrasing" when you said that people have a right not to be dragged into life. Sure, I don't really believe that was a misphrasing, but sure. But there are still 2 other examples.

I condemn anyone for having children. — Andrew4Handel

The axioms on which one is condemning their enemy — Andrew4Handel

And

The validity of any moral system — Andrew4Handel

I am an antinatalist. — Andrew4Handel

And I'm sure many more to come.

I'm sure if anyone started trespassing on your home you'd call the cops, despite claiming that people can't own land.

Or another example:

It's hard to not see a performative contradiction between you saying "it's all fictions, we're just pretentious animals" while at the same time explicitly and vehemently arguing for the right to exercise violence in the defense of a number of these fictions (the fiction of jewish religion, the fiction of a jewish people and the fiction of a state called Israel). — Echarmion

I am a gay person the only non Christian in my Immediate family. — Andrew4Handel

Good job. Want a medal?

You're clearly not arguing from a levelheaded position. Look, I'm sorry for the shitty life you had but you keep contradicting yourself here. Maybe take a break.

Well insofar as Israel is ignoring international law and committing genocide, you're right that it's not particularly effective at the moment. — StreetlightX

What a shockingly trivial response. I can cite you many genocide and crimes the UN failed to prevent including the Rwandan genocide and the The Sierra Leone atrocities (they were ended by the UK and USA) Likewise the Kosovo genocide. You have not defended the authority of international law so fake apologies for me ridiculing it.