The atheist, who is agitated or angry and defensive by the cosmic religious feeling, is the same atheist who seemingly denies (or upholds) such intrinsic or universally virtuous human belief and value systems that initially caused their anger to begin with. Is that a kind of repression or denial of their own sentience, I wonder? Are they angry and resentful about something? Is there any hope? — 3017amen
Einstein made many statements in the course of his life about the word "God" and he did contradict himself.. . .his religious views for which he had many . . . — 3017amen
A person who is religiously enlightened appears to me to be one who has, to the best of his ability, liberated himself from the fetters of his selfish desires and is preoccupied with thoughts, feelings and aspirations to which he clings because of their super-personal value [...] For science can only ascertain what is, but not what should be… — 3017amen
Are they angry and resentful about something? — 3017amen
Good luck with that "case". :sweat:I'll make the case that Einstein was an agnostic — 3017amen
Albert Einstein, d. 1955
[ i ] "I believe in Spinoza's God, who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and the doings of mankind."
He's an acosmist (colloquially a "pantheist") because "the harmony of all that exists" - his, like Spinoza's, conception of divinity - corresponds to the fundamental laws of nature, and not "agnostic" about any (e.g. JCI) theistic g/G.
[ ii ] "I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures, or has a will of the type of which we are conscious in ourselves. An individual who should survive his physical death is also beyond my comprehension, nor do I wish it otherwise; such notions are for the fears or absurd egoism of feeble souls. Enough for me the mystery of the eternity of life, and the inkling of the marvellous structure of reality, together with the single-hearted endeavour to comprehend a portion, be it ever so tiny, of the reason that manifests itself in nature."
He rejects (a) JCI theistic deity: (weak) atheist.
[ iii ] "You may call me an agnostic, but I do not share the crusading spirit of the professional atheist ..."
He implicitly equivocates "agnostic" with weak atheist.
[ iv ] "I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."
Weak atheist.
[ v ] "About God, I cannot accept any concept based on the authority of the Church. [...] As long as I can remember, I have resented mass indoctrination. I do not believe in the fear of life, in the fear of death, in blind faith. I cannot prove to you that there is no personal God, but if I were to speak of him, I would be a liar. I do not believe in the God of theology who rewards good and punishes evil. My God created laws that take care of that. His universe is not ruled by wishful thinking but by immutable laws."
Weak atheist. Like Spinoza, an acosmist; and therefore not "agnostic" about any (e.g. JCI) g/G.
i. cable to Rabbi Herbert Goldstein (1929)
ii. The World As I See It (1935)
iii. letter to Guy Raner, Jr. (1949)
iii. archives (1954)
v. William Miller, Life Magazine (1954) — 180 Proof
One of the most famous statements made by Einstein on this topic is this: “I believe in Spinoza’s god, who reveals Himself in the lawful harmony of the world, not in a god who concerns himself with the fate and the doings of mankind.” — Ciceronianus the White
But, when you say that you think that he was probably an agnostic, you might be right, but even then that is trying to categorize him. — Jack Cummins
I'm not sure what you think are the "intrinsic or universally virtuous human believe and value systems" — Ciceronianus the White
Consider the simple rule of treating others as you would like to be treated. — 3017amen
That's hardly a peculiarly Christian rule. — Ciceronianus the White
A person who is religiously enlightened appears to me to be one who has, to the best of his ability, liberated himself from the fetters of his selfish desires and is preoccupied with thoughts, feelings and aspirations to which he clings because of their super-personal value [...] For science can only ascertain what is, but not what should be… — 3017amen
I think this sounds very much like some of the points I was making on the other thread. The atheist can't know that there is no God. He can only think or believe so. This would seem to make atheists more agnostics than strict atheists. Many an atheist may say "I don't believe in God" and count themselves "atheists" but if you press them they are likely to admit that they can't be certain that there is no God. — Apollodorus
I've always said, in my discussion here most Atheists seem somewhat unsophisticated in their thinking. They seem stuck or as Einstein said 'chained' , — 3017amen
philosophical Revelation
— 3017amen
There is philosophy, usually defined as organized thinking about a determinate subject matter. And revelation, which isn't. What, then, is philosophical revelation? — tim wood
There is philosophy, usually defined as organized thinking about a determinate subject matter. And revelation, which isn't. What, then, is philosophical revelation? — tim wood
Christianity borrowed so much from the ancient pagan philosophers — Ciceronianus the White
Do you claim that atheists reject the Golden Rule because it came to be adopted by Christians? — Ciceronianus the White
Not all philosophies are atheistic. — Apollodorus
I've always said, in my discussion here most Atheists seem somewhat unsophisticated in their thinking. They seem stuck or as Einstein said 'chained' , by religious dogma and other obvious baby v. bathwater stuff — 3017amen
Maybe you should take a survey on just what, exactly, that "vast majority" who believe in g/God(s) actually believes about them. Who knows, you might not then be so sanguine about speaking for them, and atheists may be in a substantial plurality.The other thing is that the vast majority of people do believe in God or Gods and atheists are a minority in the world. — Apollodorus
The problem is when atheism becomes a form of religion that seeks to impose its views on others, for example, as in communist countries like China. — Apollodorus
The other thing is that the vast majority of people do believe in God or Gods and atheists are a minority in the world. I think this makes it legitimate to investigate the phenomenon of atheism in general and, especially, what motivates atheists to disbelieve and to adopt negative and aggressive attitudes or behaviors in their relations with believers. — Apollodorus
Einstein claimed that fanatical atheists are unchained but still feeling the weight of the chains, like phantom limb syndrome or something, I suppose. Indeed nihilism might be thought of as a kind of religious phantom limb syndrome, where discomfort is experienced in the absence of the superpersonal. — praxis
The problem is when atheism becomes a form of religion that seeks to impose its views on others, for example, as in communist countries like China. — Apollodorus
Maybe you should take a survey on just what, exactly, that "vast majority" who believe in g/God(s) actually believes about them. — tim wood
Alas, adding to our woes, Einstein didn't exercise the same logical rigor he did in physics and math when it came to religion. The world, especially his fellow scientists, would've never forgiven loose terminology in science but insofar as god is concerned, we let a lot of imprecise language slide. — TheMadFool
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