Boycotting China - sharing resources and advice

Benkei

So, I want to boycott China because of Hong Kong and the Uighurs, and I've been working towards that for quite some time now. Some things I've noticed.

One, boycotting China is expensive, expect to spend at least 10% more on most things. Second, it's difficult because most companies don't fully disclose their supply chains, so you're likely to still buy Chinese goods. Third, maybe I haven't searched well, but I can't find a place where people share their leg work.

So, I'll share some things. If you're considering solar panels, Solar Watt is one of the few German manufacturers that really manufacturers in Europe.

I found an alternative water cooker at heatle.de which will be produced in Germany. Some components unfortunately are still sourced in China but it's the best I've found. Possibly some designer water cookers are produced elsewhere but I don't like paying more for a brand name.

Falmec cooker hoods are produced in Italy.

Sony phones are "made in Japan" which means that at least most of the value added activity was performed there but I think it's likely components are sourced from China. Also : fairphone.

Watch out for the CE and C E mark. The latter, with a space, stands for Conformité Européene, the former stands for China Export. Avoid the former.

See: https://support.ce-check.eu/hc/en-us/articles/360008642600-How-To-Distinguish-A-Real-CE-Mark-From-A-Fake-Chinese-Export-Mark

I'd really appreciate people adding to this, for instance, about cars or other stuff you're knowledgeable about.

@The Opposite maybe you have some practical things to add?

Outlander

As long as you don't be a Nazi not letting Asian-(whatever the hell your country is) have a right to life and liberty thus committing a global atrocity and if sanctioned by your "government" a war crime and international crisis.

Benkei

↪Outlander

Yeah, I'm a total Nazi. You got me.

Outlander

↪Benkei

Oh it's not about me. It never was. Not really. I do like to reach out though. The government is not the same as the people however and I share your suspicions or at least concerns.

Apollodorus

You got me. — Benkei

Me too.

But I think China has behaved despicably and should be held to account. Organizations like the China Tribunal are doing a good job exposing the Communist regime's atrocities.

But much more needs to be done. People could demonstrate outside Chinese embassies, banks, companies, phone or email them to inquire about crimes committed by the Communist Party, etc.

By the way, any ideas where we can buy stuff with "Boycott China" and similar logos?

Benkei

↪Outlander

I find it a bit weird though that the first association with an argument for divestment and boycott of a certain country because of human rights abuses is that with racism.

Anyhoo, in a capitalist world and in a capitalist society like the Netherlands, money is power, which is precisely why China isn't boycotted. It's become too powerful. So the only way to influence politics is diminishing China's power by diminishing its income. Our governments might be too chicken to do something about it, or shouldn't stop us from voting with cash.

The nice thing is also that countries like Germany, South Korea, Japan, etc. often have much higher quality standards for production, resulting in those extra expenses probably paying off in the long run.

Benkei

By the way, any ideas where we can buy stuff with "Boycott China" and similar logos? — Apollodorus

No idea.

NOS4A2

↪Benkei

I’m on the same kick. I didn’t know about the C E/ CE thing. Good advice.

In Canada, we’re so wedded to the CCP that they are building a massive trade center near where I live. These efforts are a part of China’s Belt and Road initiative, which, if successful, would make CCP goods and services part of the very fabric of the global economy. I suspect it will get worse before it gets any better.

Benkei

↪NOS4A2

excellent. Glad to know there's something we agree on! :up:

DingoJones

↪NOS4A2

Sadly I suspect Canada is already lost. States too. We are only now seeing some more drastic changes but China has seeded the world economy for thier eventual ascension for many decades. I think we’ve already lost to whatever endgame agenda they have and just din’t know it yet.
Governments are controlled by corporations, corporations are controlled by the markets, china has a massive chunk of the market they complexly control (their people) and therefor a massive control over corporations which give them massive control over governments.
China has been playing at an advantage for many years, their hands not tied by pesky distractions like their peoples freedom or humanitarian rights or the rights of corporations to autonomy and/or intellectual property the way most of their competitors do and so have been able to expand their influence without people much noticing at all. They are far enough ahead and so successful that I think its safe to say the war is over and we’ve lost. Now we are just going through the motions of whatever new structures they decide to put in place.

Manuel

↪Benkei

I'm not pro or anti China. Here it's a bit tricky to get good info, that is info that is not extremely laden with very strong ideological lenses.

So I wanted to ask, how bad is the Uigher situation? Is it actually genocidal?

And lastly, where do you get reliable info on this topic? I sometimes struggle finding info that I think is solid on this specific topic.

Sorry for the barrage of questions, it's just that I'm curious.

Benkei

↪Manuel

No, that's fair to ask. For me the Hong Kong situation is already enough, where they have reneged on clear promises.

Here's about intimidation of Uighurs abroad. I can confirm this is indeed happening in the Netherlands. https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/research/2020/02/china-uyghurs-abroad-living-in-fear/

Here's PBS including satellite imagery https://www.pbs.org/newshour/features/uighurs/

Uighur fugitive reports across various countries are the same. So we pretty much know what's going on.

Jack Cummins

↪Benkei

I am concerned that at some point there will be a war between China and one of the large superpowers. But, I have thought this for a long time, and believe that it would potentially be the war which may end almost everything.

When Covid_19 broke out, and China was blamed I thought that potential war with China was a possible underlying rhetoric. So, I am rather concerned that the boycott China idea is part of this. But, I am not really sure, because I don't always know where to get reliable news, as I am sure that there is so much going on behind the scenes of news headlines and stories.

Deletedmemberph

↪Benkei

Why? 90% of export is from China. If you buy ecological products at least you have tastier food. Unless you have too much credit on your card of course.

Benkei

↪Pretty Herds

Don't pollute my thread with bullshit.

Manuel

↪Benkei

Ah, fantastic political speak "vocational training schools". :roll:

The situation in Hong Kong is sad, I would've liked to have visited while it still had the social freedoms they have now lost, to a large extent.

What is most worrying to me is Taiwan. There it's very, very dangerous. And the US has to to stop being provocative, as well as China. Nuclear war is no joke.

Thanks for the sources. :up:

The Uigher situation is worse than I initially thought.

Apollodorus

I was wandering if anyone has thought of Tibet?

Millions of Tibetans have been murdered by the Chinese regime ever since the Maoists invaded their country in 1950-51.

Should we not campaign for Tibetan independence and for China to be punished for its crimes?

Deletedmemberph

↪Benkei

There are 1,4 billion Chinese in China. Do you really think the Chinese government cares about you buying their products or not? Go ahead and boycot if it makes you feel better. But if you wanted to help the people of Hong Kong you should've started 2 years ago.

Look up the statistics: this whole pandemic was a phantom menace. In the meantime we've given up all our rights. We're being ruled by big corporations now, who can do whatever they want. For whoever controls the internet controls the people.

I can't pollute this thread because the whole internet is already corrupt :rage:

ChatteringMonkey

↪Benkei

A Boycott only is effective if enough people join in.

People are not likely to join left to their own devices, usually they'll just buy with their wallets.

The usual ways of organising collective action runs via national political parties, which seem difficult to move at this point.

Purchase power taken as a whole however, has enormous political potential. The question is how to get enough of it on board.

Start a site and call it the 'Peoples Purchase Power Party (PPPP)' or something, with the goal of using purchase power all over the world for good causes. Keep it simple, state your goals clearly, list the obvious good causes, list the products that are being targeted etc... do the work and the research for them.

Campaign the internet for people to join purchase boycotts and finance the project. I'd say there's enough people who would would be willing to join ideologically, but still, chances seem rather slim that it works. There just isn't any organised direction at this moment, to much splintering and disinformation, and no faith in the success of such actions....

Until it maybe gets some traction, somehow, at which point people could start to join in droves. Once you have that, the sky is the limit really, you could even leverage the potential purchase power to negotiate directly with governments or companies.

Oh yeah, be sure to find ways to keep the monster under control, should you get there.

Changeling

The Opposite maybe you have some practical things to add? — Benkei

I didn't get a notification for this for some reason...

I live quite a nomadic/frugal life not buying many products in general - so I naturally boycott Chinese goods. This may be the best method...

Sony phones are "made in Japan" which means that at least most of the value added activity was performed there but I think it's likely components are sourced from China. Also : fairphone — Benkei

I think Samsung phones are primarily made in Vietnam, although cheaper models are made in China.

Benkei

But if you wanted to help the people of Hong Kong you should've started 2 years ago. — Pretty Herds

I did. I've donated and wrote Dutch members of Parliament.

Look up the statistics: — Pretty Herds

I did, which is why I asked you not to share bullshit.

Benkei

↪ChatteringMonkey

Yeah, if only I had the time and financial comfort to work full time on this. But in principle it's good advice.

Deletedmemberph

↪Benkei

I apologize. Most people aren't that sincere. I'm sorry.

Did the Dutch government respond or take action?

Hanover

So the only way to influence politics is diminishing China's power by diminishing its income — Benkei

This sounds naive. The justification for your boycott is rightly a moral one, not a practical one. Not a single Chinese business will suffer from your efforts., but that's really not why you should or shouldn't boycott.

Foghorn

So, I want to boycott China because of Hong Kong and the Uighurs, and I've been working towards that for quite some time now. — Benkei

Uh huh.... Sure, I believe you.

Foghorn

I think we’ve already lost to whatever endgame agenda they have and just din’t know it yet. — DingoJones

Well, they are the biggest country in the world. As example, after WWII America and Russia replaced Europeans powers at the top of the geo-political heap largely because they are larger countries. So, the same process is probably still underway. Example: I've heard there are more middle class Chinese than all Americans total.

One guy on NPR suggested America should have the goal of having a population of a billion people by century's end, just for this reason. That story made me very glad that I'll be dead soon and not around to see that happen.

Foghorn

For me the Hong Kong situation is already enough, where they have reneged on clear promises. — Benkei

Agreed, but isn't Hong Kong a lost cause, and hasn't it always been so? Why do people think that a single city is going to be able to resist or reform the largest dictatorship in the history of the planet? Hong Kong is over, if we're going to do anything it should be to help Kongers find new homes elsewhere. Vote with their feet, that's all they have left.

Foghorn

I am concerned that at some point there will be a war between China and one of the large superpowers. But, I have thought this for a long time, and believe that it would potentially be the war which may end almost everything. — Jack Cummins

Yes, that could easily happen, agreed. Not on purpose probably, but there are plenty of opportunities for stumbling in to it.

Foghorn

What is most worrying to me is Taiwan. There it's very, very dangerous. And the US has to to stop being provocative, as well as China. Nuclear war is no joke. — Manuel

Wise words, thank you.

Foghorn

Don't pollute my thread with bullshit — Benkei

Said the fire to the frying pan....

Count Timothy von Icarus

One of the biggest ironies of the China issue is that a carbon tax would do wonders to help move manufacturing back to the US.

Chinese goods are cheap because Chinese labor is cheaper, sure, but it's also because the externalities and carbon impact of shipping goods back and forth across the ocean, and producing goods in a place with fewer regulations, are not factored into the price.

Instead of arbitrary, reversible tarrifs, Trump could have had a lasting system that boosted domestic production in carbon taxation.

Boycotting China - sharing resources and advice

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