No, it's not simple. You are simple if you think that a no-brainer requires law enforcement. If it were a no-brainer, there would be no need for law enforcement. — James Riley
In that case, for a particular person, the probabilities can only be calculated theoretically, not empirically. — baker
Which makes for a lot less optimistic numbers. — baker
More importantly, people don't make decisions based on a risk/benefit analysis, but based on their values, ie. what they consider important. — baker
Always blame the person, eh? — baker
Medicine is ignoring the very people it is supposed to help. — baker
Informed consent is not all or nothing.
— Fooloso4
What do you mean? — baker
I'm talking about the discriminatory practices that are already taking place: such as being required to get vaccinated, or else get fired. — baker
As long as it is possible that one ends up with a stroke and paralyzed and homeless after getting vaccinated, this is all that matters to one. — baker
hen why are there laws against stealing and killing, for example, if those are no-brainers? — baker
Something being a no-brainer doesn't mean it needn't be made into a law. — baker
If society wishes to enforce various types of discrimination against people, based on whether they are vaccinated or not, then there needs to be a legal basis for this. — baker
Making sure to keep the discourse ever so superficial, eh? — baker
As long as it is possible that one ends up with a stroke and paralyzed and homeless after getting vaccinated, this is all that matters to one.
— baker
What matters to one is not what matters to all. — Fooloso4
Who's advocating that? — baker
Actually, it must be great to feel so confident that luck is on one's side. Getting the vaccine, thinking, "Oh, surely I'm so great and so lucky that I will not get the side effects!" — baker
as if this were 100% certain. But is it? Calculate the probability. Otherwise, all you have is ideology. — baker
I'm guessing that the probability of getting a bad case of covid is about the same as getting bad side effects from the covid vaccine, at least in some areas. — baker
If you get the serious negative side effects of the vaccine, how will you cope with them? How will that affect your trust in science? Do you really think you will be able to take solace in the fact that the vaccine has helped other people, but not you? — baker
True. There are many people with no brains, so they need laws. — James Riley
If you get the serious negative side effects of the vaccine, how will you cope with them? How will that affect your trust in science? — baker
Please present comparative statistics. — Janus
What the fuck do you think would happen if we didn't have any restrictions or countermeasures in place? — Christoffer
In about a year...actual herd immunity. And minor population control. — Book273
So, what reason do I have for believing that the WHO is not a propaganda machine? — Janus
If you think they do then send me a link to the precise thing I am asking for. — Janus
Really hard to prove how bad things "would have been". Everything runs on modeling and assumptions. — Book273
I had considered running magic shop back when I had finished high school, I noticed how stressed out the other students were at exam time and figured I could sell them an amulet to wear when they wrote their exams that would make them do 20% better on the exam than if they had not worn it. At the time I thought that the placebo effect and reduced anxiety based on wearing the amulet would result in at least a 20% increase in their grade. Turns out, had I sold those items, I could have been charged with fraud, as there is no way to prove that wearing the item would have had any positive effect. When I countered with the "but just think how bad they would have done with out it." I was told that businesses that practiced that way are operating illegally and in bad faith. I find it ironic that the governments are not held to the same standard as an 18 year old entrepreneur. Apparently it's illegal for the business man but just good messaging for public health? — Book273
Just think, without all this...you could have died. — Book273
Of course, with all this...you could still die. — Book273
Huge difference. — Book273
Actually, I do. Just because I don't care doesn't mean I don't understand. Common mistake, surprising how common it is. — Book273
Why are we tolerating conspiracy nuts on this forum?
I would say it is because what we find intolerable, but nevertheless have to tolerate, — Cuthbert
You are clinging to the premise that public health is entirely correct and that they are completely trustworthy. Maybe they solidly believe what they are peddling. I completely understand that you believe them. — Book273
However, public health in the 20's and 30's also supported eugenics as a viable heath initiative. This is true for many countries at the time. The most infamous, and the one that resulted in the end of publicly supported eugenics, were the Nazis, master race and all that. It was wrong, but at the time was a supported theory. — Book273
Other initiatives also supported by public health include racially separated bathrooms (theory of the time being that non-white people spread disease), removing children from transient peoples (gypsies, etc) as transient people were clearly of lower breeding. — Book273
Yep there are some epic fails in the history of public health, mostly based on the politics and perspectives of the time, not based in science. — Book273
We should question what is going on. IF the answers hold up, great. If not, following directions might not be the way to go. — Book273
You have yet to specify when I claimed any sort of conspiracy theory. Still waiting on that. — Book273
You are clinging to the premise that public health is entirely correct and that they are completely trustworthy. — Book273
I don't buy into the sales pitch. A lot of us that work in healthcare don't, no matter how much that may shock you. At the end of the day I am very glad you don't make the rules I have to live by. — Book273
I have given examples of when public health has had less than scientific approaches; if you want solid examples of this, look them up. — Book273
At no point have I suggested any conspiracy theory, that is all you. If you disagree with this claim then it should be easy to locate exactly where I claim a conspiracy is underway. Don't paraphrase: quote me. — Book273
It is unfortunate that to every example I have given to support my position you counter with some version of "irrelevant." or "prove it". — Book273
Also, I am not yelling at you, nor swearing, nor seeking the moderator to intervene on my behalf, nor am I questioning your place on this forum. — Book273
I suggest that people make up their own minds and determine their own course of action; as close to informed consent as they can achieve, and not blindly obey (unless they want to). That is all. Why this infuriates you is beyond me. People thinking for themselves should be a good thing, correct? — Book273
You can get national data over what you are looking for if you do some digging. — Christoffer
People are stupid, most of them have zero ability to logically conclude anything, review facts, or come to conclusions that are sound. I don't agree that people shall "make up their own minds", people should know their limits, they should know when they don't know all the facts to make a conclusion. — Christoffer
People need to understand their place. — Christoffer
There are too many people thinking their opinions matter or are important, they aren't, most people don't know anything and their conclusions are laughably inaccurate — Christoffer
I don't like uneducated people who speak like they are the world's experts on things they don't understand even the basics of. — Christoffer
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