I tend to be kind of dubious about the system serving as an incentive for producing "better" posts. There must be other ways of doing that. And if the poll has only collected 30 votes, this may indicate that there is no great interest in it anyway (unless there isn't a great deal of active members :smile:). So, I would vote to turn it off.

The system won't work on those who prefer to lose their reputation. ;-) They actually work towards that end. Then the fun of slapping yellowbelly wannabe bullies and scat loving trolls is doubled. Perhaps another way of looking at it is, any value in approvals from the valueless, has no value. But maybe your efforts are apprenticed by some.

Then, maybe compare the likes to say the ratio of comments and replies to see if it tracks well. A "good" poster is one that inspires discussion and I suppose a poor one just litters all over the place, so the ratio should be relevant. — Cheshire

If it tracks well, then comments and replies would be sufficient metrics (which we already have).

@jamalrob. Strikes me the question is quite easily resolved. Let it run for another week or so, then take a look at the post history of the folk with the most likes. If they're the kind of posts/posters you want to encourage, the system works: if they're not, the system doesn't work.

Let it run for another week or so, then take a look at the post history of the folk with the most likes. If they're the kind of posts/posters you want to encourage, the system works: if they're not, the system doesn't work. — Isaac

How do you propose to guard aganist subversion and sabotage?

How do you propose to guard aganist subversion and sabotage? — baker

I don't know, I'm not familiar with the site code. If anyone can be arsed to actually game the likes on a niche internet forum then good luck to them.

I think the like score is unclear and misreading. Since likes are not offset by dislikes, the metric is cumulative, so it mixes several unrelated factors into one score: duration, frequency, plus whatever else induces likes. That whatever else is itself a mixed bag, in which post quality probably isn't even at the top. And yet "quality" is how the metric would often be interpreted.

People like things for a lot of reasons and quality or truth is rarely one of them. The popularity of an opinion isn’t a good measure of its veracity or validity anyways.

It seems to me “Reputation system” is an odious term, something like certain governments would do.

I like being able to hit a “like” button to show appreciation for someones post because just chiming in with a post that says “well said” or something seems awkward for both parties.

What if we called it the "peripheral agreement" button?

I'd like to see whether there is a direct correlation between "turn it off" votes and those with a low number of positive votes.

So for those with low up votes, if you've grown tired of being looked down upon,, what you should do is delegitimitize the system by casting meaningless up votes. As in. like right now, vote for me over and over. That way you can defend your own low up votes by saying, "Yeah, but up votes are bullshit. Hanover got them by leading a ridiculous rebellion."

We should give bonus abilities to people with high votes, like you can ban anybody you want for a week.

LOWER TAXES, BETTER JOBS, FREE CHILDCARE.

VOTE NOW. VOTE OFTEN. VOTE HANOVER!

I voted to get rid of it, but it's not a big issue with me. However you decide will be fine.

NOTICE MEEEEEE!!!!

I think the whole idea of rating is useless for this forum. We're (hopefully) here to discuss things -- it's not a popularity contest. When it turns into that, it becomes Twitter and Facebook.

I kinda like it. I especially like that it's only positive and not negative (no downvotes). I do miss seeing postcounts tho. Wish there was a way to show both. Makes it harder to pick users out.

I turned on the reputation system a while ago to see what would happen — jamalrob

So, why the need now for this particular experiment ? Hasn't it been discussed in the past ?
What has changed ? Is there a problem or a pressing issue that needs to be addressed ?

I don't know if we've given the functionality enough of a chance--ideally it should begin to indicate those members who make good contributions and who have been around for a while--but I'm interested to know what you think about it. — jamalrob

'Ideally' - but it isn't ideal, is it ? How can a mere uptick on a post show that the writer of the post makes 'good contributions' ? What makes a person 'like' a post by another poster ? Clearly, it involves more than a 'quality' issue.
As for the quantity of posts and time served on TPF, these can be seen on any poster's profile page.
That is about quantity not quality.

So this 'reputation system' is questionable to say the least.
A 'reputation' for what...?

Now comments can be liked (upvoted) by other members, — jamalrob

Is this the way forward ? I hope not.
What are your intentions for TPF - to become like Facebook ?

What should we do with the reputation system? — jamalrob

I vote to turn it off.

And perhaps think again about why there might be a 'quality' issue.
Be pragmatic. Follow a process to reach some kind of a solution.
If this is the first step...now what ?

Different strokes for different folks. Waiter, I'll have the usual.

That's kind of how I feel about it too.

What are your intentions for TPF - to become like Facebook ? — Amity

People keep going on about Facebook. But there's more to the internet than Facebook et al, and I think there are more relevant comparisons and models. Reputations, upvoting, downvoting and so on are used on other, more interesting websites, sometimes to good effect. There are many social platforms that use something like a reputation system, where it seems to work. Reddit and things like Physics Forums spring to mind, and anything that uses Discourse or Stack Exchange, e.g., the Codecademy Forums or Philosophy Stack Exchange. Of course, that functionality is richer, and the latter is more of a Q&A site, but still.

And the idea, implied by others here, that philosophy, whether on or offline, has hitherto been--or should be--free of accolades, status indicators, social pressure, and so on, strikes me as naive.

Strikes me the question is quite easily resolved. Let it run for another week or so, then take a look at the post history of the folk with the most likes. If they're the kind of posts/posters you want to encourage, the system works: if they're not, the system doesn't work. — Isaac

Sounds good. Then I could drop this pretence of democracy. :wink:

By the way everyone, since this software we're using is basically just Vanilla, it might be worth quoting what they say about their reputation system:

Reputation is an important concept in online communities because it lets community members and moderators know who can be trusted and it allows members, who have invested their time and effort into building the community, accumulate reputation capital which can bring real-world benefits such as influence or employment opportunities.

An engaged community is one where people are creating content and interacting with each other in a meaningful way. [...] — Vanilla

https://blog.vanillaforums.com/product/vanilla-forums-reputation-system

One issue is that the icon to like a post is hidden by default unless you hover over the post (on desktop) or click the post twice (on mobile), so I think for the most part it's going to go unused except by those who know specifically to look for it.

What are your intentions for TPF - to become like Facebook ? — Amity

I can respect that concern. So, putting all things aside, including the warranted belief that 'likes' as it were simply show the majority sentiment or viewpoint of a given demographic (this forum) .. as well as the fact it may skew one's own final interpretation as well as replies (shiny objects, projected authority, it's why managers wear suits and the new employees just have shirts, it has a real effect on our extremely susceptible influence.. but did post count not?) .. as well as simulated (non organic) likes (which I doubt would be a problem here) .. all that aside.

We get down to a question of post count vs. likes. Many of the criticisms are actually shared by the two. I see someone with 2k+ posts, I'm naturally inclined to read and dwell more on those arguments than say that of a new poster, "village elder" effect. Which is actually foolish (to do so as automatic policy for obvious reasons). In fact, one could say it's actually more "free", fair and balanced as it were. Someone who is on par with a poster who has been posting for years and has thousands of posts can now be on the same "social" level if they can so prove it. Which eliminates "newcomer" stigma. But of course, you can simply click on a profile to see which seems to make the difference minute.

It's a difficult question. Unless you pass it off as just about meaningless and little more than an aesthetic change of environment which most people seem to at least appreciate if not only as a transient event.

That said for newcomers to this site the allure of a philosopher with say thousands of posts as opposed to "a like or two" can be quite intriguing. It was for me. To summarize, In my opinion a semi-advanced philosopher with something to contribute probably wouldn't base any worthwhile thought or action on either.

I've been on another forum that combined likes with a short private message. I once wrote a really long post that I put a lot of time and thought in. I got a like. It was a nice feeling. I got it for an obscure reference buried somewhere in a paragraph I'd made entirely by accident. If someone were to like one of my posts here I wouldn't have that sort of information. I can't decide whether that's a good or a bad thing. Human psychology, huh?

We can't fine-tune it — jamalrob

Nah, you could. I could, at least. While it would be complicated (yet far from unfeasible) to add an option in the user CP to choose which to display as preference.. these things usually have central templates or pages of code that are easily modified. Of course, like all created things you modify them at your own risk. If you do decide to do so, make sure you save a pre-modified backup.

Like, simply adding the likes to accent the post count or vice versa ie. 1.2k (0) or even showing both, if not changing the mouseover text to show either likes or posts. Which would be a nice advancement.

Nah, you could. I could, at least. — Outlander

This is not self-hosted software, so I don't see how.

People keep going on about Facebook. But there's more to the internet than Facebook — jamalrob

Indeed. So, what is your response to the first part of my quote:

What are your intentions for TPF — Amity

There are many social platforms that use something like a reputation system, where it seems to work. Reddit and things like Physics Forums spring to mind, and anything that uses Discourse or Stack Exchange, e.g., the Codecademy Forums or Philosophy Stack Exchange. — jamalrob

Interesting links.
I had a quick look at the Physics Forum. Picked on this thread to see how the 'Reputations System' operates:
https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/has-all-the-good-music-been-played-copied-completed.979403/

So, it looks more informative and useful than the simple 'like' function currently on offer at TPF.
You can see the poster's 'status' and who 'liked' a post.

Also, the Codecademy has a most clear and helpful 'How to Get Started' thread.
https://discuss.codecademy.com/t/how-to-use-the-codecademy-community-forums/78832

New users are somewhat limited for safety reasons. As you participate here, you’ll gain the trust of the community, become a full citizen, and those limitations will automatically be removed. At a high enough trust level, you’ll gain even more abilities to help us manage our community together.

Note that some posting options will only become unlocked as your Trust level increases. Be sure you use the Search box to look for answers and browse through other posts to get a feel for our Community before you start posting. Getting to Trust Level 1 is pretty easy. Learn more about Trust Levels here.

https://discuss.codecademy.com/t/user-trust-levels/6442 — The Codecademy Community

I am not sure if this is the kind of thing that you are looking for?
As things stand, we pretty much use our own judgement...a mix of subjective and objective...

I think TPF quality could be increased by careful editing of e.g. 'Useful Hints and Tips'.
Welcoming, encouraging and keeping New Readers or Posters - I think that would be a good start.

I think that you have quite the challenge ahead of you :cool:
Best wishes.

From oasis to cess pool, in one tweak. :roll:

I don't like it.
But now that it is in operation, I am curious how many receivers of hearts are givers of them as well. Maybe one can have the numbers side by side, a token economy of imagined love.

@Baden 82 - Hanover 73 and closing in fast. Is that my footsteps you hear?

Sounds good. Then I could drop this pretence of democracy. — jamalrob

Hanover 73 and closing in fast. Is that my footsteps you hear? — Hanover

I don't know who mentioned it but note that you can in fact see who has upvoted a post, by hovering over the number to the left of the heart icon.

EDIT: unless that's just mods and admins.