Significant change does not occur so long as the ruling classes do not feel threatened. — StreetlightX

Yes, but you know as well as I do that doesn’t exclusively mean threat of violence.

There’s been progress even under our oligarchic system. If we reserve “significant” only for systemic change, then unfortunately you’re right.

There’s been progress even under our oligarchic system. — Xtrix

In which direction exactly? Wealth inequality is higher than ever, you run the world's largest gulag system, corporate capture of government power has probably never been more prevalent, US life expectancy is falling, your infrastructure is crumbling, your housing market is back up to 2008 levels with no countervailing forces in sight, your public services have been gutted, working rights have never been more scuttled as more and more workers turn to the gig economy as they wallow in precarity, your press has never been more subject to corporate imperatives ... that progress?

In which direction exactly? Wealth inequality is higher than ever, you run the world's largest gulag system, corporate capture of government power is has probably never been more prevalent, US life expectancy is falling, your infrastructure is crumbling, your housing market is back up to 2008 levels with no countervailing forces in sight, your public services have been gutted, your press has never been more subject to corporate imperatives ... — StreetlightX

Well when you put it that way…

But we have some decent pizza places.

:100:

It was right before the election, remember; burning and looting - and the left applauding from a kneeling position as people's homes and businesses went up in flames!

Correction:

Portland residents held hostage to continuing violence as mainstream media looks away
Posted by: Scott A. Davis, June 17, 2021.

PORTLAND, OR – Despite mostly silence from mainstream media, the residents and businesses in Portland continue to suffer under relentless anti-police riots more than a year after the violence began. ...

Residents have been held hostage in the city as violence appears no longer tied to protests, but to simple anarchy. One 44-year-old Portlander told The Epoch Times:

“There are brazen shootings and killings in broad daylight which did not happen before this past year. The violence is no longer limited to nights or certain neighborhoods.”

“While most left-wing activists welcomed the Biden inauguration, Portland activists unveiled signs that read “WE DON’T WANT BIDEN—WE WANT REVENGE” and swarmed the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement facility, throwing rocks, bottles, and a pepper-like spray from paintball guns.

https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/portland-residents-held-hostage-to-continuing-violence-as-mainstream-media-looks-away/

Keep the applause going!
Those left wing rioters need your left wing support!

There are forms of Left Wing radicalism apparent in the US, but none so apparently emboldened as the Right's. — Lil

Old style Communists would probably brand the right-wing storming the US capitol building (1/6/21) as "infantile adventurism" or some such. There is no good reason for the left--even if it were a coherent militant force, which it is not--to pull a similar stunt.

Why not?

The US Government, like most large governments, is perfectly capable of defending itself and prosecuting would-be revolutionaries, right or left. True, the capitol police force was caught flat footed, but they are but a tiny branch of the forces available.

As mentioned above

The very idea of there being an uprising is skipping steps, there isn't any other option than hard work by organizers and taking over local governments and councils — Saphsin

There is virtually zero revolutionary left-wing (socialist) organizing going on in the United States. There probably is more right wing / fascist organizing going on, but we are not talking about a mass movement on the right, either. The Right wing doesn't need to get organized as long as you have people like Trump, Mcconnell, Abbott, et al around.

I find that to be as compelling as my own take on the matter, and even more comforting. Maybe a more objective view from 30k feet? I hope it is true. I think it is true. It would help me sleep better at night. Raising a glass to it. :up:

Check out Michael Delli Carpini & Scott Keeter or more recently, Donald Kinder & Nathan Kalmoe.

Revolutionary is just an escapist buzzword for those who don't want to think about the steps. Take for example, stakeholder socialism that was mentioned earlier, let's run through what is needed to achieve this. What are the prerequisites to recreate the Meidner Plan for instance, you obviously need a labor union movement. And at the moment, this is excruciatingly difficult in the U.S. without passing the PRO Act, which people are organizing to pass right now. And if it fails this year, we have to try again through building a greater majority in Congress next year with left-wing members (and I'm not saying this because I like this process, but what's the outline?). Or what about the Roemer's Market Socialist Model? To do anything close to making sweeping changes like this, you need a radical social democratic state. It's a far greater expanded form than Norway's Sovereign Wealth Fund project.

With the rise of "Far Right Extremism" and the Right so emboldened as to storm the Capitol building, where is the Far Left's Uprising? There are forms of Left Wing radicalism apparent in the US, but none so apparently emboldened as the Right's. — Lil

Because right-winger extremism isn't largely considered a threat as demonstrated by the muzzled response by guards (some sympathetic to them) during the capital riot. Contrast this to the response of city police during Black Lives Matter protests last summer after the death of George Floyd. Easier to be "emboldened" as the Right, when the red carpet is rolled out for you.

Most modern US Leftist organization is through unionization and through local politics achieved with some very moderate success. I don't think problem lies with Leftists per se, as some members seem to suggest (I think Leftists are far smarter today than they have in decades prior), but rather lies with the colossal structures of Capitalism, ideological bulwarks, state militarization, etc.

Why rise against something you yourself built?

I don't think problem lies with Leftists per se, as some members seem to suggest (I think Leftists are far smarter today than they have in decades prior), but rather lies with the colossal structures of Capitalism, ideological bulwarks, state militarization, etc. — Maw

Absolutely.

It would be hard to over-state the intensity of efforts against labor and the left by the capitalist class (the ones who actually are succeeding at capitalism) and their government / political branches.

It would be hard to over-state the intensity of efforts against labor and the left by the capitalist class (the ones who actually are succeeding at capitalism) and their government / political branches. — Bitter Crank

But Cuba.

Because right-winger extremism isn't largely considered a threat as demonstrated by the muzzled response by guards (some sympathetic to them) during the capital riot. Contrast this to the response of city police during Black Lives Matter protests last summer after the death of George Floyd. Easier to be "emboldened" as the Right, when the red carpet is rolled out for you. — Maw

Oh good grief , I live in Chicago , and have seen blm signs littering the wealthiest and most privileged neighborhoods in the city , as well as in the formerly Rebublican, ultra-wealthy , lilly white North Shore suburbs Every weekend hordes of hipster kids would come into town from the suburbs to create sidewalk graffiti and show their radical cred. In my city , as well
as most large American cities, this was about as mainstream a movement as I’ve seen, except among the police.

In D.C. , a strongly liberal city , it was the same thing. The population as a whole despised the capital rioters , and the police supported them.

Does that mean the average urbanite supports
critical race theory. No, but they are vastly more sympathetic to it than to Trumpism.

Any left-wing uprising that exists in the US has been consistently quashed by the establishment "left" in recent years. If you followed the 2020 Democratic primaries, you'll probably be familiar with Super Tuesday and the events leading up to it.

Why rise against something you yourself built? — NOS4A2

Correct. The founding fathers, dyed-in-the-wool flaming liberals every one (if not radical) built this nation and wrote all it's organic documents. Only fascists have, so far, been so brazen as to try and take down the capital. Well, fascists and monarchists.

There is no left wing in the US. Just a bunch of effete liberals - all of whom are centre right - who confuse politeness and table manners for politics. — StreetlightX

Yet for some reason these people are painted as radical Castro-loving communists by the right.

this was about as mainstream a movement as I’ve seen, except among the police. — Joshs

So if a mainstream movement (it peaked in June 2020 with around 67% support, decreased to 55% by September 2020) could illicit demonstrable brutality against them by police, what type of reaction do you think the police would have against a large non-mainstream protest against capital?

what type of reaction do you think the police would have against a large non-mainstream protest against capital? — Maw

you mean like in Portland and Seattle?
All I can say is that the police weren’t calling the shots in Chicago, the mayor was, and she strongly supported the protesters.

what type of reaction do you think the police would have against a large non-mainstream protest against capital? — Maw

Had liberals or black people attacked the capital, they would have been martyred by crew-served, belt-fed automatic weapons fire. Conservatives would have been toasting in orgasmic delight at bars and spreader events all across the country. Their mantra: "They wouldn't have been shot if they would have complied!"

But Cuba. — schopenhauer1

Yet for some reason these people are painted as radical Castro-loving communists by the right. — Mr Bee

Cuba and Castro? Up here in Canadian border state land anyway, Cuba and Castro just don't show up on the radar. Just because they've had some demonstrations doesn't make them relevant to US politics, all of a sudden. (I'm in favor of lifting the embargo on Cuba and freely trading with them.)

what type of reaction do you think the police would have against a large non-mainstream protest against capital? — Maw

Are you speaking of das capital or de capitol?

Any strong, coherent, powerful protest against capital[ists] has been and will be suppressed by the state (some branch). This is not a left/right issue: Most people support capitalism (in the same way they support air or sunshine). Every now and then an effective stroke against capitalism is made, usually in the form of a labor strike. Democrat and Republican governors alike will call out the national guard to assist the capitalists (96 times out of 100, anyway).

Occupy was able to establish its camps on the doorsteps of the corporation and the government without receiving police suppression because it was (more or less) beneath the contempt of capitalists and the state. It just wasn't a threat. It was worth doing, but let's be clear -- the idealists who flocked to Occupy were not plotting revolution. They were engaging in a very pleasant Young Folks Frolic & Political Dance. They should do it more often,

"Republicans are supporting Cubans who are fighting communism for a living wage, health care, and basic human rights while at the same time telling Americans a living wage, health care, and human rights are 'Communism.'" DeathMetalViking

Because right-winger extremism isn't largely considered a threat as demonstrated by the muzzled response by guards (some sympathetic to them) during the capital riot. Contrast this to the response of city police during Black Lives Matter protests last summer after the death of George Floyd. Easier to be "emboldened" as the Right, when the red carpet is rolled out for you. — Maw

A recent extension of this: the double standard between BLM and leftists protests on Florida highways, and anti-Cuban government protests on Florida highways.

Also, in the case of the Michigan State House and other places, it doesn't hurt if everyone is packing M-Forgeries and other kit. The left could take note. In fact, Ronny Raygun championed gun control in CA as soon as blacks started packing at protests back in the 60s.

Yet for some reason these people are painted as radical Castro-loving communists by the right. — Mr Bee

Because Americans are the most politically shallow people on Earth.

Americans are the most politically shallow people on Earth. — StreetlightX

"One pays heavily for coming to power: power makes stupid." ~F.N.

Today's millennials have significantly more progressive political instincts than all the older age brackets, but they're also the least active electorate while those >50 who on average have the most regressive politics are the most active electorate.

This pattern has been typical since the past century (young in contrast to the old being the least active), my guess for the reason is that it takes a while to absorb enough experience for a lot of people to realize that they need to pay close attention to the country instead of sitting down. But the politics of the average politically engaged American is going to be very different in the coming decades.

Also, the idea that Russia is responsible for the insanity of American politics and not the fact that Americans are endogenously politically insane is hilarious. — StreetlightX

It's the answer to the variance in the groups. Mainstream reports of it in the news over the last couple days. The NY times did a pretty good documentary interviewing ex-KGB. It's documented at degree granting institutions. https://youtu.be/tR_6dibpDfo Operation InfeKtion: How Russia Perfected the Art of War | NYT Opinion

It's the answer to the variance in the groups — Cheshire

The 'answer to the variance in the groups' is that an enormous majority of Americans are extremist lunatics who, incapable of admitting it to themselves, need to blame a third party.

The 'answer to the variance in the groups' is that an enormous majority of Americans are extremist lunatics who, incapable of admitting it to themselves, need to blame a third party. — StreetlightX

Excellent assertion. But, the particular direction of the extremist lunatics has been influenced. I don't dispute they can and will do bizarre things on their own. I'm not finger pointing to relieve blame. There is a substantial record and enough of it is common knowledge to make your dismissal seem awkward. Believe whatever, I didn't pull it out of thin air is my point.