Few writings from and about the first sophists survive. The early sophists charged money in exchange for education and providing wisdom, and so were typically employed by wealthy people. This practice resulted in the condemnations made by Plato through Socrates in his dialogues, as well as by Xenophon in his Memorabilia and, somewhat controversially, by Aristotle. As a paid tutor to Alexander the Great, Aristotle could be accused of being a sophist. — Wikipedia
A philosopher is someone who practices philosophy. — Wikipedia
Philosophy (from Greek: φιλοσοφία, philosophia, 'love of wisdom') is the study of general and fundamental questions, such as those about existence, reason, knowledge, values, mind, and language. — Wikipedia
The attacks of some of their followers against Socrates prompted a vigorous condemnation from his followers, including Plato and Xenophon, as there was a popular view of Socrates as a sophist. For example, in the comic play The Clouds, Aristophanes criticizes the sophists as hairsplitting wordsmiths, and makes Socrates their representative. — Wikipedia
Philosopher = Sophist - Payment — TheMadFool
What more need be said about how Philisophy and Sophistry were so alike that they could be and were mistaken for each other? — TheMadFool
Throughout the ages the question has remained - how can an ordinary, perhaps foolish person tell the difference between the two? This can be an issue even in cases where the differences are more apparent. — Tom Storm
Well said. But what about philosophers that accept donations — Apollodorus
You seem to be implying that only intellectually-challenged people can't tell the difference between Sophists and Philosophers, fixated on money, not a good sign by some accounts, and using that to make the distinction between the two. — TheMadFool
Was I that unclear? My point was how is an ordinary person expected to tell the difference between bullshit and acuity? Much of the time I can't even tell the difference between good and bad products, let alone metaphysics. — Tom Storm
Money, what it stands for, is an old enemy! — TheMadFool
Why should asking money for wisdom make the widom less wise? I rather pay some money for good wisdom than getting bad for bad.
(thats 5 dollar please) — Prishon
Explain the logic/rationale behind what is essentially dislike, perhaps even hatred, for sophists back when they were part of Greek culture, about 2000 years ago. Money still has a bad rep - money can't buy everything! (false but humor me). — TheMadFool
I dunno whats the reason behind hatred or essential dislike. Why do you ask this? Whats the connection with the old Greek. Money cant buy anything but you CAN buy a book that contains wisdom. — Prishon
Money, what it stands for, is an old enemy!
— TheMadFool
Why should asking money for wisdom make the widom less wise? I rather pay some money for good wisdom than getting bad for bad.
(thats 5 dollar please) — Prishon
Explain what? — Prishon
I didnt speak about the amounts of money. There are people who own 100 million euros while on the other hand there are people struggling to make ends meet. Thats immoral! — Prishon
You're barking up the wrong tree. — TheMadFool
I know it is off topic but I liked this phrase. Again, we can get into philosophy of language.
Barking up the wrong tree it is related to a dog who is wrongly breaking at something meaning that a person is saying arguments against the wrong listener or context.
I have in my language a similar phrase with the same meaning: ¡a otro perro con ese hueso!
(give that bone to another dog!)
Another thing we learned today. Cheers! — javi2541997
Irrelevant as sophists too would be happy to receive financial assistance, no strings attached (donations). — TheMadFool
the idea that philosophy is a "higher knowledge" they shouldn't be paid for is silly, for more than one reason. — Ciceronianus
Well, I doubt anyone would refuse if the donation was generous enough and could be used in a good cause.
But would your equation be "Philosopher + Donation = Sophist"? — Apollodorus
Plato was an aristocrat, and quite well off. Not for nothing did Diogenes the Dog mock him for his vainglory (and other things), trampling on the carpets of Plato's house.
A person who has no need to make money often looks down upon those who must make money. We pay people for their knowledge all the time, and have always done so. For example teachers, doctors, lawyers are all paid for using what they know to the advantage of their students, patients and clients. It would be wonderful if we didn't have to pay for anything, but the idea that philosophy is a "higher knowledge" they shouldn't be paid for is silly, for more than one reason. — Ciceronianus
I wouldn't be surprised at all if all philosophers are, indeed, sophists. — theRiddler
Glad you liked them! :grin: BTW, I'm actually empathetic to what you say in your OP. Just thinking that philosophers need to put food on the table too, and most don't make great farmers. — javra
I'm just pointing out the obvious fact that Greeks didn't approve of wisdom and money being exchanged for each other. I suppose they thought selling stuff was what ordinary people would do and so when the sophists asked for fees when imparting wisdom, they lost their distinctiveness as sages. Sages (wise folks) weren't supposed to care about dough! — TheMadFool
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