If death means non-existence, then all living beings had been dead for billions years before birth. Life is brief and just a very strange weird absurd experience before going back to non-existence again sometime in the future.

To ask a living organism to conceive of death is like using a pen to draw a picture of itself, broken into pieces. Possible.

To ask a living organism to conceive of death is like using a pen to draw a picture of itself, broken into pieces. Possible. — TheMadFool

Could you explain it? Does the pen suppose to have mind to perceive anything?

has anyone, conceived of nonexistence/death? — TheMadFool

We have no need to worry about our non-existence, because the personified process of dying and death takes care of everything for us. It's a free service, though various agencies try to collect as much as possible before The End, when we cease forever to produce revenue.

Granted, at times death seems to provide moderately interesting subject matter, but it's always a dead end, so to speak.

As Emily wrote

Because I could not stop for Death –
He kindly stopped for me –

Emily was sure that the horses pulling the carriage in which she and Death rode were headed for eternity. Paradise? Well, she didn't say that, and she could have if she had wanted to. However, Immortality was a third passenger. I don't expect immortality to be in my carriage ride with Death. You can think so if you want -- it won't make any difference, either way, Just my opinion.

Could you explain it? Does the pen suppose to have mind to perceive anything? — Corvus

Not exactly, the pen can be used to draw its own end (broken). Take it one step further, take a pen, press its nib on a piece of blank paper and that's it!

We have no need to worry about our non-existence, because the personified process of dying and death takes care of everything for us. It's a free service, though various agencies try to collect as much as possible before The End, when we cease forever to produce revenue.

Granted, at times death seems to provide moderately interesting subject matter, but it's always a dead end, so to speak.

As Emily wrote

Because I could not stop for Death –
He kindly stopped for me –

Emily was sure that the horses pulling the carriage in which she and Death rode were headed for eternity. Paradise? Well, she didn't say that, and she could have if she had wanted to. However, Immortality was a third passenger. I don't expect immortality to be in my carriage ride with Death. You can think so if you want -- it won't make any difference, either way, Just my opinion. — Bitter Crank

That's another way of visualizing/imagining death - motionless inside a coffin in a hearse headed for the cemetery. The eastern version would be the body alight, blazing, on a funeral pyre. Yet these are still not what death is really like. One has to think about not thinking, death being defined as the cessation of all thought. To think about not thinking (death), one has to think (about not thinking) and not think (in order that not thinking can be thought about), impossible!

Interestingly, we can...not think about thinking i.e. switch off metacognition. In easier to understand words, we can stop thinking about thinking. Most people, 90% of the time, are not engaged in metacognitive cogitation i.e. self-awareness is, on most occasions, absent.

Our rather complicated and pathetic relationship with mortality is centered on self-awareness (metacognition) - we feel there's something, a self, an I, that perishes permanently, for all time to come, when we die - and yet self-awareness can be turned off, is missing for 90% of our thinking lives. Thus, in a sense, we can conceive of death, ego death I suppose, by deliberately refusing to undertake metacognitive tasks i.e. stop thinking about oneself. One less thing to worry about I suppose.

To ask a living organism to conceive of death is like ... — TheMadFool

... a stone aged human imagining herself on the Moon looking back at the Earth. Death is the ur-counterfactual; the reflection on a mirror darkly from nowhere; an unwanted epiphany of utter oblivion by which every meta-cognitive entity ineluctably calls into question 'being a self'. :death: :flower:

To ask a living organism to conceive of death is like ...
— TheMadFool
... stone aged human imagining herself on the Moon looking back at the Earth. Death is ur-counterfactual, the reflection on a mirror darkly from nowhere. An unwanted epiphany of utter oblivion by which every meta-cognitive entity ineluctably calls into question 'being a self'. :death: — 180 Proof

Yet, many times people have looked into the mirror and only seen a stranger eye back at them! Would you care what happens to strangers?

"Strangers"? I'm not following you.

"Strangers"? I'm not following you. — 180 Proof

A rhesus monkey looks at a perfect hi-fi image of itself when it looks into a mirror but for the monkey, the image is another rhesus monkey, a stranger.

And your point is –?

And your point is –? — 180 Proof

The image in the mirror, a good mirror, is perfect - every scar, every beauty spot, every thing, is exactly where it's supposed to be - and yet one, humans, recognizes it as self and one, monkeys, see it as an other.

Reminds me of reincarnation. If you've had another face, another body, in another life, the image you see in the mirror won't match the image of yourself you have in your head. You will then fail to identify with your own reflection. Do animals reincarnate? A viable hypothesis for failing the mirror test and its analogs. The person in the mirror is a stranger and yet...not!

:chin: Hmmmmm.

man who has learned how to die has unlearned how to be a slave....I am now ready to leave, regretting nothing except life itself....Death is the origin of another life....is it reasonable to fear for so long something which lasts for so short a time?"
~Montaigne, "To Philosophize is to Learn how to Die" — Pantagruel

Why he regrets nothing except life itself? Was his life that bad to him? Is there an incarnation after dead? Death is not scary. Or is it? Why? Because one does not know what comes behind? Can an atheist have fear of death? Of the eternal dark? Why doubting a reincarnation or eternal glory and immersion in the divine unity of the duality of the trinity? Why an atheist says that there is no reincarnation?

Not exactly, the pen can be used to draw its own end (broken). Take it one step further, take a pen, press its nib on a piece of blank paper and that's it! — TheMadFool

Sorry couldn't quite make link between the pen drawing its own end, and a living being conceiving its' own death. :)

Death makes us realize love. Our dog was laying sick. Vet couldnt come thanks to lady Corano. She was suffering. Then it seemed it subsided a bit. We sat beside her, laying our hand on her chest. She looked up and gave us the last eye. Her heart stopped. Damned! She must be in heaven now! Although... Her remains are in the garde.

Death makes us realize love. — Prishon

People try to remember the dead. I often wondered, why not remember the living, but the dead?

Everybody loves you when you're dead! The wreathes are laid by the ones who didnt love you though... What I mean is, knowing that you die must make you act. To love is to act, Victor Hugo said.

Everybody loves you when you're dead! The wreathes are laid by the ones who didnt love you though... What I mean is, knowing that you die must make you act. To love is to act, Victor Hugo said. — Prishon

One must die to be loved? :roll: :chin:

One must die to be loved — Corvus

Not necessarily. But the very fact of dying hurries love. Though you cant hurry love. If I was to live forever for sure I would kill myself one day!

Not necessarily. But the very fact of dying hurries love. Though you cant hurry love. If I was to live forever for sure I would kill myself one day! — Prishon

Living forever means that you come back to life even if you killed yourself. So you can't kill yourself. If you can, you were not to live forever. :D

So you can't kill yourself. If you can, you were not to live forever. :D — Corvus

Sharp as ever! I have to think about that one!

Prishon say Corvus nice guy. Prishon wanna...PRIIIISHON! AGAIN, SHUT THE F. UP!


:smile:

People try to remember the dead. I often wondered, why not remember the living, but the dead? — Corvus

I have a saying I came to from sad experience: treat each person the way you will wish you had when they are gone,

So you can't kill yourself. If you can, you were not to live forever. :D — Corvus

There seems to be no way out of my false statement! :smile:

sure. That sounds like a true religion.

:nerd:

Damned! I gotta slow down! I have posted almost 900 comments in 10 days...

Prishon say good essersise. Prishon wanna go for 1000! Pri... PRISHOOOON....!

Sharp as ever! I have to think about that one!

Prishon say Corvus nice guy. Prishon wanna...PRIIIISHON! AGAIN, SHUT THE F. UP! — Prishon

Merci Arigato ~ :cool:

Quando sarebbe un magico ti fosse fatto un bel grande gelato. E una favola! :starstruck:


Is it pizza time already? I always imagine you sitting in an office, doing philosophy while working...

Sorry couldn't quite make link between the pen drawing its own end, and a living being conceiving its' own death. :) — Corvus

There's nothing to it. A pen can be used to draw itself when its whole and in fine condition - it can, in a sense, form a picture of itself "alive". What's death to a pen? When it's broken, no longer able to write, leaking, in pieces. That too a pen can draw i.e. again, only in a sense, a pen can picture itself dead. To push this ability of a pen to its zenith, we take the pen, place its nib on a blank sheet of paper, and...do nothing. There's nothing to draw and that's why we can't conceive of our individual extinction, there's literally nothing that can be meditated upon.

Quando sarebbe un magico ti fosse fatto un bel grande gelato. E una favola! :starstruck:

Is it pizza time already? I always imagine you sitting in an office, doing philosophy while working... — Prishon

It shows you that the posts we write here convey meanings, and also emotions which evoke the readers' imaginations. :smirk:

Thanks. We had nicely baked bread, meat and soup. :yum: Hope you had a great lunch.

There's nothing to draw and that's why we can't conceive of our individual extinction, there's literally nothing that can be meditated upon. — TheMadFool

But then, no one alive has ever been dead. How do you know it, without ever having been dead?