I would intubate the first one and put him on a vent, — frank
Which one is the first one? — James Riley
Using Covid-19 vaccine passports to tailor restrictions, however, has drawn staunch opposition based on several weighty concerns.1 First, while vaccine supply remains limited, privileging people who are fortunate enough to have gained early access is morally questionable. Second, even after supply constraints ease, rates of vaccination among racial minorities and low-income populations seem likely to remain disproportionately low; relatedly, if history is a guide, programs that confer social privilege on the basis of “fitness” can lead to invidious discrimination. Third, the extent of protection conferred by vaccination, particularly against new variants, is not yet well understood, nor is the potential for viral transmission by people who have been vaccinated. Fourth, privileging the vaccinated will penalize people with religious or philosophical objections to vaccination. Finally, we lack a consensus approach to accurately certifying vaccination.
If it was my loved one's life on the line who needed the bed, then I'd make the decision for the triager. That settles that. Some times a selfish, inconsiderate, disrespectful asshole makes it my lane. — James Riley
You gotta be in the moment. — frank
You can bully and bluster till the cows come home but you are wrong. :100: — ArguingWAristotleTiff
I don't know. — frank
That's fine for you to think that. We want people like you to think that. It's good to have protocols. Until it's not. That's when shit gets real. — James Riley
Ah, but Benkei's scenario said you did know. You aren't willing to address hypotheticals as you play on your key board today? — James Riley
You do NOT know of what you speak. Period. — ArguingWAristotleTiff
Is this all a game for you? — ArguingWAristotleTiff
Vehemently against — NOS4A2
not a proximate cause of an accident — Benkei
still considered generally safe, — Benkei
do see good reason to prioritise help if someone culpably has put himself in a particularly dangerous situation. — Benkei
Also, this is actually not true. People from lower socio-economic backgrounds are disproportionally sanctioned for breaking laws with less leniency applied. — Benkei
Most laws that are passed disproportionally benefit rich people. — Benkei
If you willfully make decisions that contribute to you requiring care and those decisions are proximate causes to you requiring care, then all other things being equal, you are not the priority patient. — Benkei
Quick follow-up, FMI.
Suppose a family had decided not to let unvaccinated (or untested / unmasked / not following protocols) into their home.
Would you be against that?
(I mean, not so much a matter of "it's their choice in their own home", but in terms of reasons for being "Vehemently against")
Yes, but you've then got to decide extents. — Isaac
1. You don't have time to deal with any of this — frank
The one vaccinated gets the one bed left, in priority over the other who deliberately chose not to be vaccinated — jorndoe
Ah, but Benkei's scenario said you did know. You aren't willing to address hypotheticals as you play on your key board today? — James Riley
I'll ask you the same question I put to Benkei then. Why vaccination? It's not even that high on the list of choices which proximally increase your risk of needing a hospital bed. — Isaac
That's not the right hypothetical. Instead focus on the healthcare worker 14 hours into trying to keep the situation under control and failing.
Frustration amped by exhaustion appears. Anger from being hungry, tired, needing to pee, etc. Do I hate white people because they're so fucking lucky? Let me deal with the black woman first.
Do I hate Jews because that one I know did that stupid thing? That guy looks Jewish, let me deal with this other guy first.
Am I really frustrated that this situation wouldn't be so bad if more people were vaccinated? Well, every covid positive patient here is probably unvaccinated, so let me just feed this anger a little more.
This is all irrational bullshit talking. Stop. Go pee. Go sit down and eat a doughnut. Write stupid stuff on your phone to people you don't know.
Now go back and deal with whatever. — frank
This is all irrational bullshit talking. Stop. Go pee. Go sit down and eat a doughnut. Write stupid stuff on your phone to people you don't know. — frank
But you prioritize those who did exactly what you, as a fucking doctor, told them to do: they got vaxed. Now you are going to turn them away because you're helping some Trumpster who told gubmn't and doctors and their fellow citizens to go fuck themselves? — James Riley
I'm reading you and am sending you energies. I wish I could do more. — ArguingWAristotleTiff
I'll ask you the same question I put to Benkei then. Why vaccination? It's not even that high on the list of choices which proximally increase your risk of needing a hospital bed. — Isaac
In not a doctor. I'm a respiratory therapist.
And no, hospitals don't prioritize based on vaccination history. — frank
our system is and was set up to deal with ALL those other proximate causes, with X number of beds, resources, protocols, and whatnot. — James Riley
there is a simple and free way to stay out of the hospital and avoid stressing those resources that were not designed for this pandemic. — James Riley
Why vaccination — James Riley
No it isn't and wasn't.
https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/adult.html — Isaac
Yes there is. I've already done it. Remain at a healthy bmi, eat well, exercise regularly, avoid crowded places during pandemics, wear a mask, wash hands regularly... Are you going to ask all the inpatients about those actions too? — Isaac
So no, no one has yet answered...
Why vaccination
— James Riley
...because no one has given anything which distinguishes vaccination from other courses of action one could take to avoid needing a hospital bed in a time of crisis. — Isaac
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