having child porn on your computer is usually still illegal in most countries. — TheHedoMinimalist
Could you actually put some numbers on this for me, even if it's a guesstimate? ...also, are you going for raw counts here, or severity of the impacts?There might be a few people here that were impacted by people doing drugs and people committing suicide but I think that’s still more rare than someone being affected by their SO cheating on them. — TheHedoMinimalist
Visual child pornography - videos or photographs - requires that children engage in sex acts. It is not likely that any child would do that unless coerced. In most places, children do not have the ability to give consent. Even if there is no legal restriction, it's just plain wrong. Children are among the most vulnerable of us. They deserve to be protected. Child pornography cannot be made without abusing and exploiting children. — T Clark
People that possess or watch child porn of any kind do not necessarily play a causal role in the creation of that content though. It is only if they produce it or distribute it or pay for it then I think one can argue that they have actually seriously contributed to the abuse of children. Otherwise, I think that content would exist even if one particular person who watches child porn didn’t watch child porn. — TheHedoMinimalist
Addicts don't commit crimes because of their addictions? I yield to my friend on most matters of sense, but the idea that addiction is victimless, except in some narrow sense that I don't know, seems absurd. In any case, even under a successful medical regime, there is still the expense we all bear, and to that extent, all are victims.Victimless? Legally, my friend, not morally. — 180 Proof
How would someone get the pornography if there were not a financial transaction of some sort? — T Clark
I get that monogamous relationships involve an agreement; but broken agreements are not the only moral considerations. I'm not sure I agree that if Bob pinky promises to buy Jane ice cream next week if Jane buys him some this week, that Bob in violating this promise is more in the wrong than if he stole ice cream from Jane. — InPitzotl
Well, one could scam or hack someone that has child porn. But, most porn is free on the Internet right now because it is funded by scam advertising. I don’t know if that’s a thing for child porn as well but if it is then I don’t think that a person who downloads child porn and doesn’t fall for scam advertisement would be doing anything to help the creators of child porn profit. — TheHedoMinimalist
Another non-financial way that someone might get child porn is if it is free distributed by a pedophile that wants to help other pedophiles out. — TheHedoMinimalist
I'm not talking about excusing the harm; I'm talking about comparing it to harms that do not involve agreement. It's breaking an agreement to cheat in a monogamous relationship, but it's not breaking an agreement to take photos of a child in a shower without their knowledge and share it online. We can't use the fact of agreement versus not to compare the latter to the former (I mean we can, but it doesn't seem to properly compare using this metric).I agree that there being an agreement is not the only moral consideration. I think that cheating is quite harmful to people and I think that harm cannot be excused because you made an agreement not to cause that harm. — TheHedoMinimalist
Are you so blind to the difference between adultery and these other things you think they should be classed together as collectively either all criminal or all legal? — tim wood
And adultery between unmarried persons? That is not even a thing. Perhaps make it all illegal and permit bounty payments to persons who report other persons? — tim wood
It's breaking an agreement to cheat in a monogamous relationship, but it's not breaking an agreement to take photos of a child in a shower without their knowledge and share it online. We can't use the fact of agreement versus not to compare the latter to the former (I mean we can, but it doesn't seem to properly compare using this metric).
FYI, this is just an example of agreement breaking versus exploitation. Also, judging from the topic, this appears to be the point as I understand it... to compare cheating to drug use/prostitution/suicide/child pornography. — InPitzotl
I'm embarrassed to even have to make this argument. Web pages usually get paid by advertisers based on how many people click on their web pages. If you go to a porn website, you are contributing financially to the site's owner. You are helping to make it financially worthwhile for people to sexually abuse children. — T Clark
So, someone sexually abuses a child and makes a film of it. Then he says "Hey, THM, would you like a copy of the video?" You say "sure" and download and watch it. Is it your position that you do not share any responsibility for the abuse of that child? — T Clark
You're conflating legal and moral claims. The topic at issue concerns legal prohibitions, not moral blame. — 180 Proof
But if you're going to use this argument:I want to clarify that I was specifically talking about the possession of child porn as opposed to the production of child porn. — TheHedoMinimalist
...then possession could enable production and that could harm the child being exploited, and:Prostitution could enable adultery and that could harm the spouse of the prostitution client. — TheHedoMinimalist
...that is worse than adultery.I agree that taking a video of a child taking a shower is worse than adultery. — TheHedoMinimalist
Well here, the analog would be to prostitution; though, more specifically, in this case we've qualified this to the level of possession of child pornography specifically made via exploitation of children, versus just generic prostitution, so this analogy isn't quite analogous. To make it so, we should qualify the prostitution... something along the lines of, prostitution specifically where the prostitute knowingly caters to a person involved in a monogamous relationship. That analog being made, given that exploitation is worse than adultery, presumably possession of such child pornography should be worse than prostitution.I just don’t think that having a copy of that video of your computer is worse than adultery. — TheHedoMinimalist
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