and also @T Clark for creating this beautiful thread. Here is my philosophical poem:

¿Olas o alas?
Olas: Alas del agua.
¿y las gaviotas?
Alas del mar.
¿Vienen o van?
Vienen y se van.
¿Nave o nube?
Nube: Nave de la luna.
¿la luna?
Si, momia del agua. - Yong Tae Min.
--------------------------------
English translation by me (sorry if is broke or something but I do not trust Google in this context).

Waves or wings?
Waves: The wings of water.
And the seagulls?
Wings of the sea.
Do they come or they leave?
They come and they leave.
Ship or cloud?
Cloud: The ship of the moon.
The moon?
Yes, the mummy of the water.

If you want check more about the author: Yong-Tae Min

My interpretation of this poem from Yong goes on two ways: White colour reflection (seagulls, moon, ship, etc...) and also freedom (that could be related to white colour itself) when he speaks about the arbitrate movement from de seagulls: "they come and they leave" as much as the waves of the sea. when we see animals flying we tend to interpret it as a freedom metaphor.

Turning the question round, why did philosophers give up poetry and start writing in prose?

https://www.academia.edu/187810/Was_verse_the_default_form_for_Presocratic_Philosophy

Good poem. I really love it when my old threads are kept alive.

Nothing pleases me
By Mahmoud Darwish

Nothing pleases me — Olivier5

Ironically enough, I like it.

:razz:

Venid, amigos:
¿Quién me compra un sombrero
lleno de nieve?
- Matsuo Basho.
--------------------
come here, friends:
who wants to purchase a hat
full of snow?

I think Basho master is referring to snow as purity or infinite. The stations and meteorology are very important to Japanese culture. The simplicity of life can be related to white color interpretation and thus, to snow. A hat? I guess this is due to this garment is put on our heads and filled our knowledge and dreams.

I enjoy this kind of poetry. Haiku or hokku.

As to its meaning, hmm...
A mystery.
I like being called in to him in the first line.

Who wants or needs to buy a hat - when - why ?
In winter to shield from the cold.
In summer to shield from the sun.

You might be glad of a hat full of snow in summer to cool off. But where would you find snow in summer ?

At home in Edo, Bashō sometimes became reclusive: he alternated between rejecting visitors to his hut and appreciating their company.[32] At the same time, he enjoyed his life and had a subtle sense of humor, as reflected in his hokku:

いざさらば雪見にころぶ所迄 iza saraba / yukimi ni korobu / tokoromade
   now then, let's go out / to enjoy the snow ... until / I slip and fall! [1688]
— Wiki: Basho

:cool:

I enjoy this kind of poetry. Haiku or hokku. — Amity

Me too. It is so pretty and philosophical.

But where would you find snow in summer ? — Amity

haha! true you are right! but Haiku poems have to be interpreted to the different stations in the year. We are not in winter yet so we have to wait to understand and experience this haiku.

Who wants or needs to buy a hat - when - why ? — Amity

It is interesting to point out that in Japan is common to wear a hat just for everything. More usual if you are worker in a farm. Probably this is why Basho is referring to a hat. Nevertheless, I do not want to sound so simple because this poem goes further than just the practical meaning of a hat.

いざさらば雪見にころぶ所迄 iza saraba / yukimi ni korobu / tokoromade
   now then, let's go out / to enjoy the snow ... until / I slip and fall! [1688] — Wiki: Basho

:flower: :up:

@Amity @javi2541997

now then, let's go out / to enjoy the snow ... until / I slip and fall! — Wiki: Basho

:up: I don't know how that sounds in Japanese but it's actually prose in English: "Now then, let's go out to enjoy the snow...until I slip and fall."

Has something been lost in translation? I dunno.

Has something been lost in translation? — TheMadFool

Probably. This is why translation is key in these poems. I don't know if it is accurate at all. My book version is in Spanish and the author who translated it explains to me that he did his best to translate Kanji in our vocabulary.
For example:
Gogori to
Kusa ni
Fundoshi kawaita.
---------------------------
Un revolcon en la hierba
Los calzoncillos ya
Están secos.
--------------------------------
A scramble in the grass
My pants are
Already drought.
- Taneda Santoko.

The translator explained that was difficult to interpret Kusa ni which literally is when you fall in to the grass o field. In Spanish means "revolcón". I searched and English means "Scramble"

Has something been lost in translation?
— TheMadFool

Probably. This is why translation is key in these poems. I don't know if it is accurate at all. My book version is in Spanish and the author who translated it explains to me that he did his best to translate Kanji in our vocabulary.
For example:
Gogori to
Kusa ni
Fundoshi kawaita.
---------------------------
Un revolcon en la hierba
Los calzoncillos ya
Están secos.
--------------------------------
A scramble in the grass
My pants are
Already drought.
- Taneda Santoko.

The translator explained that was difficult to interpret Kusa ni which literally is when you fall in to the grass o field. In Spanish means "revolcón". I searched and English means "Scramble" — javi2541997

That kinda gives me an idea; if we speak with a rhythm, even prose becomes poetry. :point:

That kinda gives me an idea;
If we speak with a rhythm,
Even prose becomes poetry.

That was an aside; picking up where we left off, I wonder what the deal is with blank verse. This particular strain of poetry is about rhythm and not rhyme. Rhythm is, bottom line, just another way of keeping time, no? So, metaphysically speaking, poems, whether rhythm/rhyme, are clocks, linguistic clocks. What say you? — TheMadFool

The above from The Metaphysics of Poetry

So, metaphysically speaking, poems, whether rhythm/rhyme, are clocks, linguistic clocks. What say you? — TheMadFool

Yes, it is true. There are a lot of different types or manners to compound a poem. Haiku is the one I love the most because it is so philosophical. It doesn't even rhyme at all but this is why I guess it sounds so good.
One of the objectives of poetry, as Taneda Santoka explained back in the day, is freezing a particular moment in our life: the sunset, night, moon, nostalgia, parents, etc... Probably this is what we can consider as rhythm.

Plastic bag pigeons
Billow slowly overhead
The soft city groans

So, metaphysically speaking, poems, whether rhythm/rhyme, are clocks, linguistic clocks. What say you?
— TheMadFool
↪TheMadFool

Yes, it is true. There are a lot of different types or manners to compound a poem. Haiku is the one I love the most because it is so philosophical. It doesn't even rhyme at all but this is why I guess it sounds so good.
One of the objectives of poetry, as Taneda Santoka explained back in the day, is freezing a particular moment in our life: the sunset, night, moon, nostalgia, parents, etc... Probably this is what we can consider as rhythm. — javi2541997

:ok: You know a lot about poetry. Great to have you on the TPF team. It looks like most forum members have their own unique talents - just needs the right thread for members to go public with whatever's their shtick!

The only Haiku poetry I can remember from my youth is,

Leaves fall
And pile up;
Rain beats on rain. — Gyōdai

There was a connection there between the poem, the poet, and me but it's lost now. Too bad, I wish I could go back about 30 years ago and re-read the poem and re-experience those emotions again.

Numinous,
Back then it was,
Now,
Like a spent candle,
Nothing!

The only Haiku poetry I can remember from my youth is,

Leaves fall
And pile up;
Rain beats on rain.
— Gyōdai — TheMadFool

That's not haiku brah..

The only Haiku poetry I can remember from my youth is,

Leaves fall
And pile up;
Rain beats on rain.
— Gyōdai
— TheMadFool

That's not haiku brah.. — Noble Dust

Indeed, it says it's hokku. Mind telling me what's the difference between hokku and haiku?

By the way,

Hokku is the pre-modern form of Haiku. — Internet

Indeed, it says it's hokku. — TheMadFool

Where?...

Indeed, it says it's hokku.
— TheMadFool

Where?... — Noble Dust

Never mind!

A'ight, well, anyways I left you guys a haiku I wrote during lockdown a couple posts back. Whatevs

You know a lot about poetry. Great to have you on the TPF team. I — TheMadFool

Thank you so much for this comment! It cheered me up! When I was a kid I used to write poetry in my notebook. Sometimes I think if I make a good effort I could write good poems and participate in some competitions.

Leaves fall
And pile up;
Rain beats on rain. — Gyōdai

Beautiful Haiku :flower: I will check Gyodai more deeply beacuse I never heard about him until today.

It's not a haiku tho...

Thank you so much for this comment! It cheered me up! When I was a kid I used to write poetry in my notebook. Sometimes I think if I make a good effort I could write good poems and participate in some competitions — javi2541997

:up: Forget about it!

Beautiful Haiku :flower: I will check Gyodai more deeply beacuse I never heard about him until today. — javi2541997

Do. Good luck!

Which one?

The one you referenced as a beautiful haiku..

Oh! I thought it was a haiku. Well, I want to share with you a real haiku then.

It is debating the decadence of a summer
At the cafeteria.
Butterflies flutter.
-----------------------------
Kafe ni Dekadan o ronzu natsu no chō toberi.

By Taneda Santoka.

Maybe you know more than I do. I'm looking for the 5/7/5 pattern I know, but I'm not seeing it. I'm aware that the original Japanese structure isn't the same. It still doesn't quite add up to 17, so again, maybe I'm in the dark here.

It does not fit the classical pattern because Taneda Santoka changed it. He wanted to revolution the classical pattern of 5/7/5. Sometimes is usual to see in their poems some variations from the original haiku.
But here is a classical good one:

even a horse.
arrests my eyes—on this.
snowy morrow
--------------------------------------
uma wo sae
nagamuru yuki no
ashita kana

By
Matsuo Bashō

Interesting to consider if the form or structure of haiku is changed is it still 'haiku'.
I think not. The changes detract from the discipline. Free-verse haiku ?!

The following poem is a typical example of Santōka's work:
What, even my straw hat has started leaking

笠も漏り出したか

kasa mo moridashita ka

This poem exhibits two major features of free verse haiku:

It is a single utterance that cannot be subdivided into a 5-7-5 syllable structure, and
It does not contain a season word.
The poem does, however, hint at a natural phenomenon — rain — by referring to the straw hat and to the fact that it is leaking. — Wiki: Taneda

What is a poem ? A single utterance ?!

Plastic bag pigeons
Billow slowly overhead
The soft city groans — Noble Dust

This is a poem :up: