Many of the enlightened folk love to revel in their self-perceived superiority, it is true. :vomit: — praxis
Okay. Nothing I've written quarrels with the facticity of suffering. You're point, such as it is, is lost on me. — 180 Proof
I disagree. Neither religion is "about morality" IMO. — 180 Proof
Christianity is mainly concerned with eschatology and Buddhism is mainly concerned with soteriology — 180 Proof
Do good and the pearly gates await you; do bad and off to the fiery pits of hell. — TheMadFool
As far as I'm aware it's Christianity that teaches about the entering the kingdom of heaven and fires of hell for those who haven't repented, that's not a teaching of Buddhism. Buddhism says that whatever you do comes back to you. So that if you do good, you will be rewarded in some way and if you are bad it will have negative consequences for you. — Ross
For me I interpret this from a psychological perspective, not metaphysical. The Buddhists are right that you will feel happier when you do good, eg help someone, and you'll feel bad if you deliberately harm people. I think that's what they mean, it's nothing to do with a God who punishes you — Ross
If one wants to know about Christianity, one first needs to strip off all the things notable Christians have said that is in direct contradiction to the teachings of Jesus Christ. One is interested in Christianity after all, and not Paulinism or Johnism. — Tzeentch
How can we know what the teaching of Jesus are and what are the teachings attributed to him? — Fooloso4
the notions of heaven & hell are just another way of saying what goes around comes around, you reap what you sow, aka karma. You couldn't possibly have missed that! — TheMadFool
Because we may never know for sure, it is up to each to look at the evidence and arguments and decide what they believe. — Tzeentch
I disagree. Neither religion is "about morality" IMO.
— 180 Proof
Truth be told, you're absolutely right! Both christianity and buddhism are, first and foremost, about suffering and how one might liberate oneself from it - by being moral humans. — TheMadFool
buddha and his long line of erudite disciples would be dead against. Buddhism is more than that. It's not just about making yourself feel better about yourself; it's a serious attempt to solve a real-world problem, that of suffering. — TheMadFool
We do not know what Jesus taught — Fooloso4
But what does it matter whether Jesus said exactly what's in the gospels. — Ross
If one wants to know about Christianity, one first needs to strip off all the things notable Christians have said that is in direct contradiction to the teachings of Jesus Christ. One is interested in Christianity after all, and not Paulinism or Johnism. — Tzeentch
I think Nietszche was correctly worried about humanity sinking into Nihilism and despair with "The Death of God" — Ross
It is Christianity itself that led to nihilism according to Nietzsche. — Fooloso4
The problem of evidence is that there is no evidence. We do not know what Jesus taught. We can date the gospels and note significant differences, but we cannot determine how any of them relate to whatever it is that Jesus might have taught. The stories take on a life of their own. In addition, the canonical gospels are only a part of what was written. — Fooloso4
"As a result, Nietzsche claims that nihilism is the devaluation of the highest values caused by the death of God"
https://brill.com/view/journals/fphc/11/2/article-p298_11.xml — Ross
My focus has been the obvious similarity between how both christianity and buddhism adopt the carrot-and-stick approach to morality vis-à-vis hedonism (pursuit of pleasure and avoidance of suffering). Do good, the rewards will be great; commit evil deeds, the repercussions will be severe. — TheMadFool
Buddhism is more than that. It's not just about making yourself feel better about yourself; — TheMadFool
the notions of heaven & hell are just another way of saying what goes around comes around, you reap what you sow, aka karma. You couldn't possibly have missed that!
— TheMadFool
Yes but Christianity doesn't mean heaven and hell in a symbolic sense as representing good or bad outcomes, the problem (for me) is that it literally believes in the existence of a heaven of eternal Bliss and hell of eternal damnation. These are ways to instill fear in people to make them "behave themselves" and so become instruments of control by the powers that be. Marx said that religion promises happiness in another world to make injustice and oppression in this world acceptable, to switch the focus away from happiness in THIS world and place it in ANOTHER world. Buddhism on the other hand teaches nothing of the sort. It doesn't believe in a supernatural Being for a start and it's focus is on achieving happiness in this world. They may have religious beliefs such as being reborn again , but it's philosophy can and often is taken separately by many people without the religious component. You should watch The Buddhist quotes on YouTube on wonder zone channel , a fountain of wisdom. — Ross
My focus has been the obvious similarity between how both christianity and buddhism adopt the carrot-and-stick approach to morality vis-à-vis hedonism (pursuit of pleasure and avoidance of suffering). Do good, the rewards will be great; commit evil deeds, the repercussions will be severe.
— TheMadFool
Good point. But I think human culture in general works that way, education and legal systems, from cradle to grave we are conditioned to feel that our behavior attracts punishment or reward.
Buddhism is more than that. It's not just about making yourself feel better about yourself;
— TheMadFool
But that's how it tends to be seen in the West where life is fast and furious and all we have time for is five minutes to de-stress before rushing back to work .... — Apollodorus
buddha and his long line of erudite disciples would be dead against. Buddhism is more than that. It's not just about making yourself feel better about yourself; it's a serious attempt to solve a real-world problem, that of suffering.
— TheMadFool
Now you've put your finger on it "a long line of erudite disciples". Why then do you view Buddhism negatively as taking a carot and stick approach. I agree Buddhism is a serious attempt to solve a real-world problem, that of suffering. And that's why I believe it contains wisdom which if practiced in ones life seems to me to be in line with modern psychologists description of a happy life. By the way what's wrong with feeling better about yourself. That's the consequence of happiness. People normally feel better when they are living a better life. — Ross
I disagree. Neither religion is "about morality" IMO.
— 180 Proof
Truth be told, you're absolutely right! Both christianity and buddhism are, first and foremost, about suffering and how one might liberate oneself from it - by being moral humans.
— TheMadFool
This cannot be right because religions tend to constrain moral development. Shared values/norms means no independent values/norms. Everything depends on group dependence. It’s not primary about morality, salvation, or a reduction in suffering. All that can be better achieved without religion. At core it’s simply about tribal solidarity — praxis
For one thing, the objective of both Christianity and Buddhism, as I pointed out in a previous post, is to ameliorate/abolish suffering. It's telling, no?, that one simple but not so easy way to do that is to behave i.e. we need to act morally. What this suggests is the intuition that we are our own worst enemy; see the problem of evil & the free will defense.
As for the link between Buddhism and psychology, all I can say is the latter reduces humans to things, objectifies them, kinda like how naturalists study animals in the wild and in captivity; I'm not comfortable with that even though it seems the right way to go about it. — TheMadFool
True. Buddhism does seem to be closer to psychology than other traditions.
Could this be why it is less popular? In India, at least, after some initial successes it got nearly wiped out by Hinduism (and to some extent by Islam) and it has never recovered — Apollodorus
To state that the "sayings" from the Q document do not bear a relationship to the good as seen through the Torah ... — Valentinus
Get involved in philosophical discussions about knowledge, truth, language, consciousness, science, politics, religion, logic and mathematics, art, history, and lots more. No ads, no clutter, and very little agreement — just fascinating conversations.