it's a wonder you aren't hiding under your bed. — James Riley
You, who know nothing about virology, immunology or epidemiology would say "unnecesarily"? On the basis of anecdotes that may or may not be accurate? Are you serious? — Janus
Not even close. On most issues in the real world — ones that haven’t been politicized— we allow the possibility of being wrong, since our identities don’t hinge on it. — Xtrix
Because there's no evidence to support that claim whatsoever. So not only "tenuous," but an outright delusion. — Xtrix
So you'll now retract that ridiculous claim, I assume? — Xtrix
Vaccines are very effective against COVID. The fact that people "still get ill" does not detract from this statement. Nor do booster shots. — Xtrix
When breakthroughs do happen, they're much milder. — Xtrix
It's not debatable -- again, it's a matter of fact. 173 million people have been vaccinated. How many deaths? — Xtrix
"Even when the size of the viral loads are similar, the virus behaves differently in the noses and throats of the vaccinated and the unvaccinated." — Xtrix
There’s a particular saying that should immediately enter your mind on reading this back. — AJJ
Because there's no evidence to support that claim whatsoever. So not only "tenuous," but an outright delusion.
— Xtrix
This just isn’t true: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-tyne-58330796.amp — AJJ
So you'll now retract that ridiculous claim, I assume?
— Xtrix
I don’t need to retract: https://m.jpost.com/health-science/pfizer-covid-19-vaccine-linked-to-rare-blood-disease-israeli-study-671694 — AJJ
It does detract from that statement, because people still get ill despite being vaccinated and need further shots for the vaccination to work adequately. — AJJ
It's not debatable -- again, it's a matter of fact. 173 million people have been vaccinated. How many deaths?
— Xtrix
In the UK is was 1,440 by the end of June: https://rightsfreedoms.wordpress.com/2021/07/15/fact-deaths-due-to-the-covid-vaccines-in-the-uk-after-6-months-are-407-higher-than-deaths-due-to-all-other-vaccines-combined-in-the-past-11-years/ — AJJ
As I said, I'm sure you can find freak cases — Xtrix
So this is "death and debilitation"? — Xtrix
There is no "death and debilitation" from the vaccines, and no evidence whatsoever supporting such a claim. — Xtrix
You said there was no evidence whatsoever to support the claim that death and debilitation are occurring among healthy vaccinated people. This isn’t true. — AJJ
And ultimately pretend that no argument against their position has been made — AJJ
They do this because they can’t think. — AJJ
It's dangerous, and the only normal response should be embarrassment and retraction.
Again -- not holding my breath. — Xtrix
You've cited evidence which is inconclusive and non-credible. — Xtrix
I point out that you’re arbitrarily dismissing the examples and statistics I linked to and begging question. — AJJ
I expect you’d say that about any evidence. A coroner rules that woman has died from a vaccine induced blood clot. — AJJ
A number of countries suspended the use of the AstraZeneca vaccine over blood clot fears. — AJJ
A study links the Pfizer vaccine to blood clots also. — AJJ
Many reports have been made of deaths and health conditions following a vaccine dose. — AJJ
You say my ignorance is getting people killed. Would it surprise you to learn that I think the same of you — AJJ
You apparently don't know what "begging the question" means. — Xtrix
I haven't arbitrarily dismissed the examples -- I'm quoting FROM the examples, which state explicitly that one should not use these cases as reasons not to take the vaccine. Very strange, given your use of them to support exactly that. — Xtrix
No, this is what the article said. The doctor said it was "likely," that's not conclusive. — Xtrix
Ms Dilks [the coroner] said Ms Shaw was previously fit and well but concluded that it was "clearly established" that her death was due to a very rare "vaccine-induced thrombotic thrombocytopenia", a condition which leads to swelling and bleeding of the brain.
It's also ONE case out of hundreds of millions of doses given -- which you repeatedly want to ignore. — Xtrix
A study links the Pfizer vaccine to blood clots also.
— AJJ
It does not, as the article mentions. — Xtrix
The Pfizer coronavirus vaccine has been linked to an increased chance of developing thrombotic thrombocytopenic purpura (TTP), a rare blood disorder, Israeli researchers said Monday.
Many reports have been made of death and health conditions following taking ibuprofen. I guess that settles it.
By "reports" you mean anecdotes, not studies. Anecdotes, I repeat, are not evidence. — Xtrix
And so I don’t wish to see the driving of cars mandated and it’s reasonable for people to decline using them. — AJJ
another possible — AJJ
You’re inclined to argue simply by assuming your position is true. — AJJ
I haven't arbitrarily dismissed the examples -- I'm quoting FROM the examples, which state explicitly that one should not use these cases as reasons not to take the vaccine. Very strange, given your use of them to support exactly that.
— Xtrix
I disagree with them. — AJJ
The JCVI partially disagrees with that claim in not recommending universal vaccination for 12-15 year olds. — AJJ
The important thing about the examples and statistics is that they show that death and health conditions can reasonably be thought to occur sometimes after a vaccine dose. — AJJ
It’s one example that demonstrates that it can happen. — AJJ
If you seriously want to play the game of "Well even ONE death proves it" -- then, I repeat: ANYTHING we do or use can be argued to lead to "death and debilitation." But it's a stupid argument. — Xtrix
The MRHA is a system to which these things are reported. They are reports. — AJJ
And so I don’t wish to see the driving of cars mandated — AJJ
A while ago, wasn't one of the main anti-vaxxer arguments the fact that the FDA hadn't approved the vaccines yet? Funny how they haven't changed their stance...it's almost as if they can't be persuaded by evidence and reason. — Xtrix
You, on the other, hand, assume your position is true, and then search desperately for evidence that supports it. — Xtrix
So you disagree with your own weak citations.
Thank you, but I'll go with their conclusions on this matter over an anti-vaxxer on the internet. I guess this is "begging the question." — Xtrix
12-15 year olds are a different subject. That's currently being studied, as it should be. My guess is that this will be approved shortly.
You keep wanting to bring this up as if it supports your non-arguments. It doesn't. — Xtrix
They do not, as the articles themselves say. — Xtrix
They are not reports. They are not studies. They are data -- data which is misinterpreted by you and your anti-vaxxer "sources." — Xtrix
The clotting cases you cited are weak. It's hardly "death and debilitation," which is a delusion. It can be said of anything, given the rarity. — Xtrix
"The same clotting conditions were substantially more likely to occur — and over longer periods — among people infected with the coronavirus, the study found.
-- NY times — Xtrix
Ask yourself why the world's experts are recommending these vaccines. Is it a global conspiracy? Do you really think they don't have answers to your questions? Do you really think there's no studies and data and mountains of evidence behind it? I can point you to plenty of them. — Xtrix
Also, we're not talking mandates. We're talking whether people should take the vaccine. — Xtrix
The answer is yes, they should -- not only for themselves, but for the community. They're safe, effective, and slow the spread of the virus -- these are facts, however many times you want to assert the opposite. — Xtrix
Suddenly it's only about mandates, which is a different topic. We have had vaccine mandates for years, but that's simply not what's being discussed. If that's your issue, then stop making a fool of yourself attempting to argue against the vaccines safety and efficacy. — Xtrix
Looking for evidence to support a view is called “thinking” — AJJ
Data based on reports made to the MRHA. — AJJ
Dying from a blood clot is both death and debilitation. — AJJ
How is it that a vaccinated individual is supposedly less likely to spread the virus than an unvaccinated asymptomatic individual? — AJJ
This discussion opened with me saying it was perfectly reasonable to decline receiving the vaccine. — AJJ
The answer is yes, they should -- not only for themselves, but for the community. They're safe, effective, and slow the spread of the virus -- these are facts, however many times you want to assert the opposite.
— Xtrix
This is question begging. — AJJ
Rather, look at the evidence and then form an opinion. Not the other way around. — Xtrix
A person "reporting" something is not a report. — Xtrix
So one ("likely") example out of 5+ billion doses. — Xtrix
There is no death and debilitation with COVID vaccines. They're safe and effective, as the evidence shows. — Xtrix
It's never a guarantee that you'll be asymptomatic. Those who are vaccinated protect themselves from getting sick, and the community at large. The more people vaccinated, the quicker we get to herd immunity. — Xtrix
It isn't. Why? Because the vaccines are safe and effective. Given that over 5 billion doses have been given around the world, I think the data speak for themselves. — Xtrix
You cite a case where a woman may have died after taking the vaccine — Xtrix
Sorry -- unless you have good reasons for doing so, it isn't reasonable to ignore what doctors and virologists are telling us to do. — Xtrix
That the vaccines are safe is a fact. This is based on overwhelming evidence, of which I've given a sample. That they are effective, likewise. That they slow the spread, likewise. — Xtrix
I posted a quotation from the article that showed the coroner’s verdict was far more definitive than that. — AJJ
This is question begging. — AJJ
Call it a “freak-case” if you like — AJJ
This is question begging. — AJJ
Sorry -- unless you have good reasons for doing so, it isn't reasonable to ignore what doctors and virologists are telling us to do.
— Xtrix
It can be if you can think. — AJJ
That the vaccines are safe is a fact. This is based on overwhelming evidence, of which I've given a sample. That they are effective, likewise. That they slow the spread, likewise.
— Xtrix
You assume these things and dismiss anything that casts doubt on them. It’s question begging. — AJJ
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