The whole life is a kind of obstacle course, forced on us from the moment of conception and even way back to the big bang. A funny game God created. — Ozymandy
And yet we keep adding more contestants. — schopenhauer1
I like competition, fights, polemics. — Ozymandy
Why should others go through obstacles because you think it's good (at the time you made the decision for that person at least). It's one thing to bring obstacles upon yourself, quite another to decide that you want to birth more people to experience obstacles. — schopenhauer1
If they're not interested...let them be. — Ozymandy
I don't disagree with this, but no one has found a better way. The closest thing in a kind of scale that was massive were communist revolutions which just led to more suffering. I just think Chernobyl, Stalin, Mao, and the rest. The game is the game. One cannot escape the game. — schopenhauer1
And collateral damage? Why does "missed happiness" matter (if no one exists to miss it)? What are people creating more people for? If you are alive.. Be HAPPY without forcing others into the game. Why must YOUR HAPPINESS be contingent on ANOTHER PLAYER? — schopenhauer1
Yet, if people are individuals and are not some Borg (group-mind), why should your happiness be contingent on someone else playing the game? Are we not creative enough not to involve another person having to play the game? — schopenhauer1
Why should we procreate people who will have to go through the obstacle course? — schopenhauer1
You are assuming by default that suffering is the end-point, be all of life. So If I tell you, where am I harming anybody by listening to a song or reading a novel? You can always say, they suffered tremendously to create such works, as they were based on frustration, sweat, disappointment, etc. — Manuel
We can play this game. I think it is evident that there is no single capitalist society which exists in the world. Same with communism. As stated by Smith and Marx and later developed by different figures, such societies could not exist.
There are examples of real democracies like the Kibbutz in Israel, or the Spanish Civil War in which people decided to work affairs out for themselves, free of "Gods and masters". Orwell speaks about this insightfully in Homage to Catalonia.
But this would be a diversion from the main point, I suspect. — Manuel
But you think it's a curse. I don't think people think like this and I don't think they're deluded. You can say life is suffering. Sure. You can say life is a miracle. Yes as well. It's not a zero sum game. — Manuel
Try writing one post focusing on the good things in life, unironically. It would be interesting to see. Cause I get the impression you would not be able to. Prove me wrong. — Manuel
Why not. I'm glad I was procreated! I — Ozymandy
I have before discussed what might be deemed as "intrinsic goods". — schopenhauer1
Ergo, another player should feel the same? — schopenhauer1
It's not necessarily a diversion. My point is survival and the limitations of being humans in a world, make it a non-starter that one can change the game. Transhumanism, or whatever utopia, just doesn't seem to come about any time soon, if at all. — schopenhauer1
But you didn't answer the question at hand which was about what you liking the game has to do with bringing more people into the game. Can't we be creative enough not to assume what others should want in such a drastic way? — schopenhauer1
I have before discussed what might be deemed as "intrinsic goods". — schopenhauer1
You're good! :blush: — Ozymandy
would you be willing to answer those three or at least one of those questions — schopenhauer1
Does that really matter when the outcome is the same (the person plays the game of life?). — schopenhauer1
It is almost if not exactly the same in terms of amount of choices allotted (play the game, or die of depredation, suicide, and poverty. — schopenhauer1
Life itself doesn't offer much beyond it's own game, homelessness, and suicide. — schopenhauer1
I'm headed for a land that's far away
Besides the crystal fountains
So come with me, we'll go and see
The Big Rock Candy Mountains
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains
There's a land that's fair and bright
Where the handouts grow on bushes
And you sleep out every night
Where the boxcars all are empty
And the sun shines every day
And the birds and the bees
And the cigarette trees
The lemonade springs
Where the bluebird sings
In the Big Rock Candy Mountains — Harry McClintock
Of course. The question was "What counts as "forcing" people into a game?". If you are not born yet, you are not "people"! :grin:Except all these examples happen when we are already born — schopenhauer1
If it's by their own will, I guess for fun, hobby, passtime, ... If forced, then they don't have a choice...But why should people play a game? — schopenhauer1
Indeed.It's a philosophical idea that what if people were severely limited but people didn't realize it, and yet were still happy.. Plato's Cave might be another example of this. — schopenhauer1
This is their perverted idea of game! — Alkis Piskas
One could argue that being "forced" to do this by another entity or creature is injustice, but there is no justification as to why it truly is. — TheSoundConspirator
I'll go with a dictionary definition: "the power or right to act, speak, or think as one wants". I don't think this is abundant in the unborn. — Down The Rabbit Hole
Again, why is not being around at time X, but being affected at time Y, not count as a force? Any number of things can be justified with this notion. — schopenhauer1
So is it only about amount of pain and pleasure for you? Is not the collateral damage something more than a statistic? It's easy to discount it when one is just philosophizing and abstracting. — schopenhauer1
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