on those distractions. If those are gone, those people crumble under the futility of the task.

The real feat would be to face the boulder and the mountain sober, focused, fully aware of the futility of the task.

Humility can take one only so far.

But if the punishment is eternal, I cannot imagine a situation in which someone could be happy, even if Camus supposes this to be the case. — Manuel

I thought it was that the pushing is pointless. It just rolls back down. I think you just need to doodle on the side of the rock as you go, or pick up mud and paint poignant pictures of sloths in astronaut suits or whatever. You can get lost in it and the pointlessness doesn't matter.

Being able to calmly endure all kinds of hardship is the holy grail for many people. — baker

All animals endure hardships to get their holy grail. Even worms!

I think I get that. But eternity is a bit much. The "saving grace" for people in this world, is that there is no hell that exists which they must endure forever, for at least they can count that eventually they will be at peace from troubles.

But, one can still recognize futility and try to do something, just for the sake of doing it.



That's a bit like my thinking about it. I mean, say the gods told me, you're going to push that boulder up that mountain forever. I'd be like, really? I can stay still, try to go to sleep. Eventually I guess I'd realize that pushing the boulder is the one thing I can do, along with what you're pointing to.

The forever part of the myth makes it less relevant, in my eyes. I don't think that pushing the boulder till' you die of old age is the same as pushing it forever.

If it causes sadness, then it’s harmful. Being sad is a form of suffering, right? And it isn’t like one can’t voluntarily suffer. — Pinprick

Then they don’t have to follow it. Being pained for not causing pain is my point. If that doesn’t compel you then I’m not forcing. It’s not forced. It’s not inescapable.

Then they don’t have to follow it. — schopenhauer1

So that justifies you causing harm?

If that doesn’t compel you then I’m not forcing. It’s not forced. It’s not inescapable. — schopenhauer1

Your opinion is presented to people without their consent, and that opinion could be harmful. Sure they can walk away, but that’s after the harm has already occurred. The fact that we can kill ourselves (thereby ending the suffering) doesn’t suffice to justify having children in your view of things. So the escapability of harm seems irrelevant, or at least it doesn’t justify taking the risk of causing harm to someone else.

So that justifies you causing harm? — Pinprick

Then how is it harming them if they don't have to follow it? I don't get it?

Your opinion is presented to people without their consent, and that opinion could be harmful. — Pinprick

Oh I see.

Sure they can walk away, but that’s after the harm has already occurred. The fact that we can kill ourselves (thereby ending the suffering) doesn’t suffice to justify having children in your view of things. So the escapability of harm seems irrelevant, or at least it doesn’t justify taking the risk of causing harm to someone else. — Pinprick

If a bully cannot get to bully others, and this makes him suffer. Does he get to bully others?

Delete.

If a bully cannot get to bully others, and this makes him suffer. Does he get to bully others? — schopenhauer1

It isn’t about the bully (who I assume represents parents). It’s about the justification for causing harm by stopping the bully. How do you justify that without undermining your justification for AN?

I also continue to be perplexed by your claim that the amount of harm caused by such an act is irrelevant. Isn’t the point of preventing harm that there’s less harm in the world by doing so? But if by preventing harm you cause more harm than you’ve prevented isn’t that defeating the purpose?

All animals endure hardships to get their holy grail. Even worms! — frank

Really? What is the holy grail of worms?

Worms cover North America, but they aren't native. They eat all sorts of stuff. I feed them cardboard.