Is eternity self-evident? By eternity, I don’t only mean the notion of time collapsing, I also mean infinite phenomena. Infinity and eternity are one in the same. I for some reason find this to be an axiomatic truth which requires no reasoning, logically structured argument, or faith. It is an inherent, self-proving truth. Please tell me your thoughts. — Mp202020

Yes. For brevity, in my writing I sometimes refer to Eternity & Infinity as "Enfernity" : similar to Einstein's "Block-Time" or "Space-Time", but in a holistic sense, timeless & spaceless. Unfortunately, for Materialists & Atheists anything that is not particular is non-sense and counter-intuitive. So, on this forum, we spend a lot of time talking past each other about what's obvious and what's imaginary. Since we humans have no sensory experience of timelessness or spacelessness, or Zero, or Infinity, such abstractions are not intuitive for those who see only with their eyes, and dismiss imaginary concepts as "unreal", hence non-sense. Consequently, they may become offended if you ask them to show you an instance of Zero. :smile:

Enfernity, Enfernal :
A contraction of “Eternity & Infinity” to indicate the irrelevance of those dualistic terms in the holistic state prior to the emergence of space & time from the Big Bang Singularity. Eternity is not a long time, it's the absence of space-time.
http://blog-glossary.enformationism.info/page8.html

Block Time :
In Albert Einstein's theory of relativity, for example, time is woven together with the three dimensions of space, forming a bendy, four-dimensional space-time continuum—a “block universe” encompassing the entire past, present, and future.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternalism_(philosophy_of_time)

s eternity self-evident? By eternity, I don’t only mean the notion of time collapsing, I also mean infinite phenomena. Infinity and eternity are one in the same. I for some reason find this to be an axiomatic truth which requires no reasoning, logically structured argument, or faith. It is an inherent, self-proving truth. Please tell me your thoughts. — Mp202020

I do not think eternity is self-evident. Possible but not evident. It's the God question all over again.

Just like a God entity would be, eternity is a concept so far beyond us that we can neither experience it, prove it, nor disprove it.

But hey, at least, I think, it's just as impossible to imagine an Everything where there is a beginning and an end.

And what is it that is eternal?
List 3 examples.

I for some reason find this to be an axiomatic truth which requires no reasoning, logically structured argument, or faith. It is an inherent, self-proving truth. — Mp202020

As a human being living a finite life in what appears to be an entropic universe, the idea of eternity seems incoherent to me for the same reasons that you believe in it.

Very good question! here is my view:
First I would not put eternity and infinity into the same basket because:

Eternal is something that has no beginning nor an end.
Eternal is tied to existence, that is for anything to be eternal it must exist.
Eternal does not imply neither excludes the concept of time (both are possibly valid)
There are no multiple versions of eternal, something either is or is not eternal.

Infinity on the other side can be either "known" or "unknown", "predictable" or "unpredictable" etc.
How? In other words there are 2 kinds of infinity:

1. Infinity which describes unknown or invisible magnitude, something that is infinitely big, heavy, long, small, lightweight etc.
Example: Exploring the universe in hope to find the end (the end is unknown and unreachable)

2. Infinity which describes "approaching" to visible or known something, something that is infinitely close to a fixed known or visible point.
Example: Approaching infinitely close to number 1 on a ruler, but never reaching 1 (the end is known but unreachable)

This also explains why infinity is not necessary to describe something that exists, it can be either real or imaginary.
Also infinity does not need to imply something that is endless or beginningless, for example we can assume the universe is infinite and mathematically describe it as such, but we don't know whether that's true.

Eternal obviously can't be classified like infinity, eternal is self explanatory, infinity is not.

$\infty$, rather loopy, don't you think? Why not $...$? It's as if, eternity is merely an illusion. When we $+$, infinity presents itself but when we $\div$, infinity fades away.

Thank you all for your responses. For me, eternity is more of an experience, hence why I “know” it to be true (by “know I simply mean for me, obviously not everyone else will have that experience). It’s almost like I can see it and feel it in every passing moment. At least, that’s the best I can try to explain it. If I were to humbly suggest a lowly excuse for a logical argument for it (which some of you may rip to shreds for all I know), I’d probably say that the fact that the present moment was able to manifest (self evident present experience), no matter what form that present moment may be, is an indication that it must therefore manifest infinitely. An innumerable amount of times for all of what we would call “eternity.” I probably embarrassed myself with that explanation, it just seems very difficult to articulate a direct experience I have into a logical proclamation.

One way to think of eternity is through temporal dimensional consciousness. This is just a complicated way of saying "awareness of time." Anyone that has studied philosophy knows the many issues of infinite regress and the problems of determinism. These are even greatly complicated by notions of eternity and infinity.

Eternity, for example : What was the first cause? Is a question from regression. Eventually, you stumble on eternity to which the Cosmos or something outside of it, must bare as a constant feature. Either time is perpetual or that which created time is. That is the conclusion I reach through my reasoning, that I would say any pondering person would come to reason too, After that, you might consider cosmology or an ontological statement that "All being is contingent upon something eternal."

Infinite duration is the same thing as eternal duration to which I would, as you have, place both in the "same basket." Yet, there can be relatively simple distinctions made between them.

The further you go into the contemplative wormhole the bigger the limits stretch. I'll be happy to share anything you might be able to ask me about when it comes to this subject. This just happens to be where my mind is taken to nowadays when free-thinking. . .

Oh yeah, there's all sorts of work done by philosophers on the topic of "The Present." One I would suggest, that amuses me, is George Carlin's bit on The Now We might get into further discussion on this thing "the present".

Infinity and eternity are one in the same — Mp202020

Wrong, something finite could exist eternally

For me, eternity is more of an experience, hence why I “know” it to be true (by “know I simply mean for me, obviously not everyone else will have that experience). It’s almost like I can see it and feel it in every passing moment. At least, that’s the best I can try to explain it. If I were to humbly suggest a lowly excuse for a logical argument for it (which some of you may rip to shreds for all I know), I’d probably say that the fact that the present moment was able to manifest (self evident present experience), no matter what form that present moment may be, is an indication that it must therefore manifest infinitely. — Mp202020

What you are describing is a very confident belief. But there are lots of things that we confidently believe that aren't true. And that's fine! It should not be embarrassing that you feel that way, we all have confident beliefs in our way.

One point of philosophy is to examine those confident beliefs and ask, "Am I interpreting this feeling logically? Is my belief real or knowable?" My question to you is, "Are you interpreting your feeling correctly?"

When I think eternity, I think forever. Never ending. Never beginning either. When you examine and think of the present moment, you are feeling what is now. There was a man who lost the ability to make long term memories after a viral infection. One thing I remember from the documentary on him was that he was told to write in a book a diary entry and mark that he consciously had written it. It was filled with pages of him Xing out the previous entry, then one with a check that noted "This is the first entry I've consciously made".

I mention this, because what you are experiencing isn't eternity, it is "the now". "The now" is our current awareness at any moment. It contains our memories of the past, but it does not need them. It can predict the future, but it cannot know it until the next second comes. The past and the future are constantly outside of "The now".

Is this eternity? I suppose it can feel like it is. That man with memory loss felt the now, but his past was gone from his understanding. To me, this indicates feeling the now, is not feeling eternity. It is feeling the moment as we pass through seconds of our life. By fact, we also know we're all going to die one day. We might feel like we aren't, like that man felt he had never made a previous conscious entry in the diary. But he did. And we all will.

So thinking about it, your feeling cannot describe eternity. Perhaps the wonderment of existence. A question of what it would be like to not exist, when you cannot remember what life was like before you were born. Regardless of the conclusion, the feeling you have is not any self-evidence for eternity, just self-evidence that you exist in that moment.

Hello, I believe you misunderstood what I meant by infinity. I meant the endless transformation of phenomena, the constantly changing form that phenomena take. It’s deeper than a specific form of phenomena which you would designate as “finite.” The infinite aspect is that which changes form, that which has no name or form in of itself. In science they call this energy (I think?) but I do know in Buddhism they call this emptiness.

Thank you Josh!

I also very much appreciate this post, Gnomon. I look forward to looking more into your cited works.