Oh wait!

Happy accident!

This was the next video YouTune spit out...

... an alternative to studying philosophy:



"I wake up in the morning and I feel like a king
Make love not work I can do anything
Can rule my own world and never have to listen
I'm living like there's no tomorrow
You know there really isn't
'Cause I said so
'Cause I said so
'Cause I said so
'Cause I said so
Every day's a thrill when you're living like me
Don't read Baudelaire's poetry
And I don't need no Ph.D.
'Cause I'm ten times smarter than you'll ever be
'Cause I said so
'Cause I said so
'Cause I said so
'Cause I said so
'Cause I said so
'Cause I said so
'Cause I said so
'Cause I said so
Now listen all you peoples to what I have to say
Every night's a gas if you want it that way
All you need is money and a little bit of luck
I ain't greedy baby all I want is all you've got
'Cause I said so
'Cause I said so
'Cause I said so
'Cause I said so"

I kind of find it funny how there's so much emphasis upon 'earning money' or a 'decent job' — Mayor of Simpleton

In our capitalist society money will be demanded from you even to allow you to live the simplest life, and a good job is the only way to get that money efficiently enough to have time and energy left to do anything else with your life. Prioritizing those things is not reflective of the inner values of a person, but just practical recognition of the extant threats to a peaceful life that allows the pursuit of other values, and the proactive addressing of those threats.

I
It is inevitable that we are constrained by material factors, especially survival as The Mad Fool has pointed out, but this is not everything. If it was, why are we all logging into this website rather other ones.

I just wish to challenge everyone to think as deeply as possible. In doing so, we may know ourselves more thoroughly. I have to admit that I sometimes respond to threads quickly. In some ways sponanteinty is good but I think there is a deeper level of reflection and questioning which sometimes gets lost in dialogues on this site.

I am not saying that philosophy should not be fun but I just think it requires us to step back and look within ourselves as we look at the issues and philosophers from the past and our current time. In doing so, we may create new pathways for ourselves and thinkers of future generations.

I kind of wonder then what the hell have my wife and I done wrong.

I've never held a 'decent job' (so to say) nor placed such an emphasis upon 'earning money' (yet I have far more of it that I can spend on things I like). I have a tendency to work for free even if they wish to pay me for my efforts.

My wife has a decent part time job and on occasion fills in at a couple of places who always want her full-time (at a fairly high salary), yet fail to understand it when she says clearly 'no'. They just don't get it that such a full-time commitment would destroy her freedom to relax and are 'soul suckers'.

We aren't rich, but we certainly aren't poor. Not even close to poor.

In non-Covid-19 years we end up traveling on vacations 6 to 10 weeks out of the year, no living in Castles (we only visit them), but usually 4 star locations as we simply aren't the age of students. I've had the pleasure of visiting 46 countries and I have no idea how many cities and towns (my wife has traveled more than I have), but I still feel I haven't been anywhere. Then again for most folks who have their lives identified by the limitations of 'what they do to earn money' I've lived a dream life.

I have a massive wealth in time and do indeed waste quite a bit of it, but on my terms. I try to avoid having my time measured out by someone else's time.

Indeed my wife and I (both now over 50) grew up in the 80's at the beginning of the neoliberal 'you are a commodity so make the most money as you can, as you are a brand' mantra of the times. We both were schooled in it, lived through the turbo development of it and in the end recognized it for what it was... a constraint and a control only leading to a life of even more constraints and controls... so we said 'fuck it'.

Perhaps I just didn't do it right, but I found what made life not worth living were the expectations and societal pressures (especially the economic success or else BS). What gave me the ability to 'overcome' this mantra and this economic assumption as the given was my studies in philosophy.

In my case the prioritizing those things is quite reflective of the inner values of my person rather than my expected value as a commodity for the greater good of the economy.

Have I been at conflict with the norm? At times, but for the most part my being 'outside of the loop' opens options that the norm doesn't even present as real much less as being a viable option. To tell the truth, those who I'd be in conflict with are so busy fulfilling the norm for a 'plug-n-play life as it should be' to notice I'm the happy guy outside of the loop, as that isn't even considered to be real much less an option... usually the only conflict I encounter with them is jealousy and frustration. I get to do all the things that their pursuit of the dream gets in the way of them actually obtaining the dream which makes them jealous, but my inability to explain why it works so well and how I got it to work for me makes them very frustrated.

I can't fully explain why this works and would probably fuck it all up if I could explain it well. There is a bit of 'the dude abides' in me, but I'm not the Dude. I'm too busy trying to figure out who I am and when I am that who.

Perhaps I'm an odd outlier of the scatter plot of modern society and it's expectations and norms, but I believe there is another way and philosophy was the key to the gate on a path considered to be not real.

Your life story just raises the question of where the money to live that life comes from if not work. If you just lived in some kind of very cheap area AND nevertheless somehow had access to high-enough paying work that part time would cover it, I could see just living a simple life on part time jobs. But then you have all that expensive extravagant travel. Something doesn’t add up.

Lots of people would love to live the life you do, but simply can’t. I don’t know what advantage you have that you can, but your life vs theirs reflects that advantage, not their values.

Vienna, Austria isn't really cheap, but then again I'm always amazed how so many of my friends start out the day with a wallet full of cash and by the end of the day have nothing leftover while having no clear idea where did all the money go. I never have the urges they illustrate of buying a short term pleasure at a high price, as mostly I see the 'Nepp' (an Austrian term for swindle or rip-off) nor do I need this short term pleasure to 'get my by' due to stress at work where I earn money to waste of the Nepp of short term pleasure. I'm quite happy as I am and recognized; thus broke the loop. If I explain this it usually results in them becoming angry with me, so I allow them to suffer as they choose.

I can use my time to find better deals and the free time to get any time slot I care. This happens when one get to dictate the terms of when one wishes to go on vacation. Also, I can take advantage of what offers are good; thus I don't have a fixed choice in mind before I research. It's amazing just how much difference there are in prices for the same vacations depending upon when you take them (and I don't mean go to the beach in winter or ski in summer... I mean 'in season')

My studies in philosophy have given me better research skills and the free time allow me time to search. It is amazing how much one can save if they have time and ability to look.

I've always been amazed how folks miss out on the obvious factor that money comes with hidden costs. Generally the more one makes the more hidden costs are present.

Another thing is property... indeed one can own it, but it can own the owner. My mother has a huge amount of property and it's beautiful (at the age of 85 she's opening an AirBnB, yet doesn't need the money or the work)... yet she cannot travel anywhere... ever. It would be fine except she always dreams of more travel and frets over why she cannot go... she frets over the property. I say nothing, but know... why did you have all the things own you if you wanted to be free to travel? Indeed she's become a slave within her own mastery. If she's happy... hard to tell. If she's constantly busy with no time to do what as she says 'she likes'... that's clearly the case. Again... I say nothing...

The list goes on and on.

If you don’t own property then you must rent. That is the biggest cost sink for most people, just having a roof over their head.

How much is your rent, and for how many square feet?

How much do you get paid, and for how many hours?

Most importantly: What other sources of income do you have?

Oddly enough we own my wife's parents house, yet I kind of doubt well ever live there. I'm not too fond of the location (now), but maybe when I'm older it'll be appealing.

The apartment is 69 sq meters with a balcony... I can't remember the rent, but everything is included. Also a great view of a mountain with a castle on the top. It is a 'Gemeindebau', technically public housing as it's owned by the city of Vienna, but it's not public housing as it is known in the USA. It is rather inexpensive (maybe $700 - 800 a month?). It's not luxury, but it seem everyone likes our apartment. I even have original art work hanging on the walls from established artists. We even have a reserved parking spot off the street.

Currently I have no job, but receive no unemployment benefits. I never bother too look into getting them.

I did work as a trainer for a professional cyclist and brought him to the World Tour, but that ended about 4 years ago, as he was picked up by Trek and now rides for NTT. They have a better ability to suit his needs and I'm fine with that. There's really no money in training professional cyclists. I just wanted to see if I could get a cyclist there... actually he's my second cyclist I brought to this level... it's a long story.

My wife works on average 12 - 15 hours a week. Sometimes it's intensive, but she could have as much as 6 weeks off with next to no work. I've never looked into her salary, but it's more than enough. We tend to invest around 60% of our monthly income into retirement funds... an irony as you'd need to work first to be considered to be retired, but anyway...

We're both very healthy, very active, make somewhat good decisions in investments and what we purchase. It's rare we buy something that just sits around never used. Also, I have time to find good prices.

Like I said... it's difficult to wrap one's head around.

I have to get dinner ready, but I'll get back to you if you'd like.

One thing I thought of that kind of hits a part of where I am...

'Libraries gave us power
Then work came and made us free
What price now
For a shallow piece of dignity'

Knowledge is power vs. Arbeit macht frei

I choose the former as I recognized the latter in it's hidden form of being a 'design for a life'.

True story:

When I was in college, I drove over to Atlanta one day to go to the Ansley Mall Bookshop (RIP) and brought a stack of books by Wittgenstein up to the checkout counter. Guy there says, "Philosophy major, huh? I was a philosophy major. [Pointing] He was a philosophy major. She was a philosophy major too."

Guess what I do for a living now. Yes, that's right, I work at a bookstore.

Okay, so your wife has an insanely high-paying job. That's your secret. She is rich, and you live off of her.

I calculate that if your rent is about $750/mo, and all your other living expenses at least that much, and you can save 60% of it, then your household income must be at least $750*2*(10/4)=$3750/mo.

If your wife works an average of 13.5hr/wk, that's about 58.5hr/mo.

$3750/58.5hr ≈ $64/hr.

The median US household makes approximately $68,000/yr, usually with two people working full-time, for a median hourly pay of about $16/hr.

So your wife gets paid so much per hour, four times as much as the average American, that she can easily support two people at the median US income with only a half-time job.

That's why you and she don't have to work so much. Because she has a really good job.

Circling back to the main topic, that's why people care so much about getting a good job. So that they can live like that. Work fewer hours, do other stuff, still keep a roof over their head.

I don't know how your wife managed to secure such an amazing job. That's the real mystery.

Also, if you guys own her parents' house, but don't live in it, are you renting it out? That's more free money and so even less work you and she have to do.

It isn't the USA... indeed we pay through taxes for our health insurance and we don't have kids. Public transport is very inexpensive and we only drive the car around 4,000 miles a year (with about 25% of that coming on a training camp in Italy).

Long story short, I find the breakdown of costs in the USA simply don't apply to the breakdown of costs in Austria... which is why I rarely if ever make suggestions of how American's should do it according to the standards here. They simply run non-sequitur.

Average salaries in Austria are just under €60,000 which is more or less the same as in the USA, just that there are far more services covered by taxes and many crucial things... like educations and health coverage... thus those are not expenses.

Minimum wage doesn't really make sense here as people aren't really paid hourly like in the USA. Some are, but it's rare. Pretty much no one makes less that €1500 a month. There are basically aspects here that just don't apply.

My wife's job is well paid, but not insanely high. Her skill set grants her the ability to work less as she's simply very efficient and her employer allows for that adjustment. Truth is we make far under the Austrian average, but it works out quite well.

Overall there is simply a greater difference in approach to working for a wage in Austria than there is in the USA. It might have to do with a perspective in life that people in Austria tend to work so they can live, whereas Americans simply live to work. I have a whole bit of this as to why... dealing with the American form of meritocratic notions and it's implications, notions of freedom in the USA vs. Europe, the influence of American religions vs. the European versions and of course the cliche of the Puritan work ethic and Manifest Destiny (or American Colonialism)... but that sort of stuff gets boring and tend to offend people who somehow think citizenship in a particular geo-political region of the globe is some point of personal pride, so I just avoid it these days.

Here's a funny example of how I'm not...

My sister, who's a very high paid lawyer (so is her husband) always freaks out about my life and how our finances are run. To be fair you allow me to give more information here that she allows me... she generally assumes the entire world functions as her household functions; thus she knows it all. I know my chosen lifestyle really funtions for me, but honestly I wouldn't wish it upon anyone else unless it would really fit them. My life, just as no one's life should be a standard model of how everyone should live, but she differs from me in that regard.

Her assumption is founded (I'd say tainted) by the fact she lives in a very posh gated community and her two kids attended a private school K thru 12 that cost per kid more than our yearly budget for everything. Much of the intention of the school was to get them into the 'right college'... unless she meant Wright State University I always thought the 'right college' was the one where you can learn to your maximum according to your personal needs; thus the various selection of colleges and universities in the USA, but apparently I'm mistaken. Anyway... now they are both in Tulane (and it seems happy to have escaped unless they need something, like money)... again an insanely expensive school, but hey... it was on the short list of 'right colleges', so mission accomplished I suppose.

Also, they are members of the 'Country Club of Virginia'... you get the picture... and her assumption is that this is what everyone not only wants, but should want. Believe me, after having to go to that place a few times I belong to as many country clubs as I care too... meaning I belong to none.

She is also enslaved by the environment she has chosen to live in... the grass has to look just so... the mail box has to look just so... the car has to be parked just so... the type of car has to be just so... and changes to the house have to go through the approval committee... so she is basically as free to conform to the standard she claims grants her the greatest freedom, as indeed she has played the game well and has won... happy to invest her money in exactly what the neighborhood approves.

Of course her vacations have to be somehow in status proportional to her chosen lifestyle (meaning 5+ star and in the 'right locations'... again unless she meant the Isle of Wright I thought the 'right location' was where one could relax and enjoy differences of culture and scenery or take part in activities that are desirable and outside the normal daily routine and such vacations are only taken when it is of convenience to the company. Basically her vacations are simply a home office with a view of the beach or the mountains. Sure she might stick her toes in the water a couple of time or possible go on a company 'hike' (aka short walk) in the woods (beside the road near the parking lot), but only as her work allows her to do so, but hey... she's free! She's never more than a few hours away from contact to her company... of which she is nearly atop the heap.

This is only a small case example, but actually all of her friends and associates work much along the same lines, so perhaps it is indeed a slightly larger sample than just one.

As her life and chosen lifestyle requires an epic amount of money her and nearly all her time to make that money, her standards of measure for how people should be are tainted by this chosen lifestyle. She cannot view the world in any other manner. My life is completely foreign to her and will remain so, actually by her own choice.

Now is she happy?

It's difficult to tell. I have very little to do with her as she is always under extreme stress and does believe she is more or less the only one under stress, but she knows she's the master of stress and can master anything as she will let you know in all humbleness just how much skill she has in this endeavor.

She is indeed hyper intelligent, hyper successful, hyper organized and hyper critical... but like I said before is she happy?

I don't know and frankly I don't care.

Anyway...

The house we own doesn't give us an income, as her parents just live there. It's different here as we own the house but rent the land... it's very common practice.

I'm kind of way of the OP here, but tangents are my thing.

It's how I ended up in Austria... a tangent.
It's how I met my now wife... a tangent.
It's how I ended up training professional cyclists... a tangent.
It's how I was able to go outside the norm of America... a tangent.
It's how I ended up playing baseball at the age of 50+... a tangent.
It's why I'm teaching myself (rather unsuccessfully) Japanese... a tangent.

Also, applying the skills I gathered via learning and yes... being really bad at philosophy, but knowing I'm bad at it... I did discover that knowledge is power and 'Arbeit macht nicht frei'.

I'm not religious at all, but as to the Puritan work ethic...

My take is that 'the devil makes work for idle hand' implies not that one should always be working or else, but rather that all work is from the devil and idle hand is the best means with which to find happiness as a by product of unexpected activities.

As you can tell I've been out of the USA for more than a quarter of a century and most all of my adult life. It was probably a good move... for both myself and the Americans who'd have to put up with me.

Austria is no perfect land by any means, but for the life I choose to live it's a far better fit. My ability to pursue a tangent and simply say no the the 'given' of American life granted me a door where most see a wall. It's certainly not for everyone, but it does defy the notion of this one size fits all approach to the must have large accumulation of money or must have decent job to thrive and be quite happy. Truth is I have rarely if ever met anyone who has a preoccupation with accumulation of large sums of money and a decent job who was indeed happy. I'm sure they do exist, but I have encountered many... actually haven't encountered any is more accurate.

Still I can't explain it, but instead I just choose to experience it... that sounds like a terrible fortune cookie, but hey... I'm rather bad at philosophy, but I'll own it.

Is it worth studying philosophy? — Mayor of Simpleton

An easy answer to to that is to point out that "philosophy" is really just an aspect of critical thinking and for one to ask themselves is it worth it for one to develop critical thinking skills. Or in the words of Socrates (or perhaps Plato, since he was the one who wrote what Socrates "supposedly" said):

"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates

It is possible for there to be people out there who don't need to develop critical thinking skills or for them to be ok with living an unexamined life but I'm kind of at a loss at the moment in trying to figure out who these people may be.

I could be wrong but I believe you are a long time member of this forum as well as the old defunct "Philosophy Forums" so of course me trying to point his out to you this is redundant since it is almost a given that it is something you are already aware of. However perhaps someone new to the forum may be less aware of this issue.

BTW, how have you been doing since I last talked to you on the old forum? I liked the video you posted in the OP and will have find me an mp3 version of it to add to my collection :D

Socrates was, let me be very clear, executed! Do all philosophers have a death wish? Is philosophizing just another way of suiciding?

When I'm in a certain state of mind, I see the flame of truth burning bright in the pitch dark and philosophers as hapless moths drawn by the shimmering light only to perish in the searing heat.

Danger! Danger! O Philosopher, beware! Truth tempts you with light and when you're in range, kills you with heat!

Philosophy ain't worth it!

is it worth studying philosophy? — ramo

I know I am going to get a lot of hate for this, but in my opinion is... No.

I hardly see any value in it because Science replaced philosophy

Philosophy was a filler for the unknown but as Science advances it pretty much began to answer many of these philosophical questions.

Even Elitist Scientists like Stephens Hawking and Niel Tyson find it absurd think.

I found philosophy going against science sometimes which is odd to me and it got me thinking as in maybe is purely subjective now.

A part of me is sad but I can’t deny the evidence philosophy is simply an obsolete way of thinking.

Do you mean history of Philosophy?

-"I found philosophy going against science sometimes which is odd to me and it got me thinking as in maybe is purely subjective now."
-Well that is pseudo philosophy, but since there is NO official or rigorous monitor in the Academia your point is valid.

I used to hold the same position with you. I even agree with most of your comment. But I understand that Philosophy provides most of the tools to science. We can not do Philosophy without Science and Philosophy disconnected to Science is meaningless.
But I will agree with you. There is no real value in "Studying Philosophy". To be more clear, by studying Philosophy one studies the History or the epistemic achievements of Philosophy, not how to philosophize correctly. That would be Logic and Science.
Studying Philosophy is just Chronicling and many misinformed students tend to assume that any claim under the Philosophical umbrella is a valid one.