If you say "It is raining", i cannot interpret you as saying anything other than " Michael believes it is raining". — sime
I'm concerned with the meaning of the proposition "you're wrong", not how to interpret it as a speech act in a specific situation like we've done above. — Michael
If you have justification that X is true, and if X is true, then you have ascertained that X is true. — Michael
As a speech act asserting that one knows X may be equivalent to asserting that one believes X, but as propositions "I believe X" is not equivalent to "I know X" — Michael
It is important to understand (contrary to sime's claim above), that we don't interpret this as:
1) John believes that X is true,
2) John is justified in believing that X is true, and
3) I believe that X is true/John believes that X is true — Michael
you seem to think that knowledge of X depends on first knowing that the third condition is satisfied, but that is not the case. Rather, knowledge of the third condition is entailed by the three conditions being satisfied (indeed; that's exactly the JTB definition). — Michael
If propositions are not speech acts, then where are they used? Do we mime them? Communicate them through the means of interpretive dance? — Isaac
How do we not (apart from just never using the expression "John knows that X is true"). The only distinction between me saying "John believes x is true (but it isn't)" and "John knows x is true" is my belief about whether x is true.
Then the entire human race is misusing the word 'knowledge' (as they're using it in case where they merely believe x is true)...or...your definition is wrong. Which is more parsimonious an explanation? — Isaac
Given the proposition "I believe that it is raining", what does the part in bold mean? It doesn't mean the same thing as the entire quoted proposition; "I believe that it is raining" doesn't mean "I believe that I believe that it is raining." — Michael
The proposition "I believe that it is raining" is a proposition about my belief — Michael
I wouldn't say "John knows X if I believe that X is true." — Michael
You want to interpret this as the claim that John is a bachelor iff:
1) I believe that John is a man, and
2) I believe that John is unmarried
— Michael
John is a bachelor iff:
1) My language community generally believe that John is a man, and
2) My language community generally believe believe that John is unmarried
It's just about the correct use of the term 'Bachelor' — Isaac
As a speech act asserting that one knows X may be equivalent to asserting that one believes X, but as propositions "I believe X" is not equivalent to "I know X". This is similar to the mistake that sime made above regarding "it is raining" and "I believe that it is raining" – even if asserting the former implies an assertion of the latter, as propositions they mean different things.
That belief and knowledge are different is obvious when we consider it in the third-person: "John believes that Donald Trump won the 2020 election" is not equivalent to "John knows that Donald Trump won the 2020 election." John can believe that Donald Trump won even if he didn't, but he can't know that Donald Trump won if he didn't. — Michael
There's nothing more to John being a bachelor than my felicitously using the term 'bachelor'. There's no God of languages checking the 'truly' correct use. — Isaac
As we are both not john, we can both agree that John's beliefs doesn't equal the truth, but that doesn't give John the epistemic warrant to know that fact, because it lies outside of John's cognitive closure.
At most, John can parrot the sentence without any understanding of what reality is like outside of the John's beliefs. — sime
When I'm out in the rain getting wet, I certainly have an understanding of what reality is like outside my belief that it is raining; I have the actual, physical experience of the rain making me wet. The fact that it's raining coupled with the physical experience of the rain making me wet grants me the epistemic warrant to know that it's raining. — Michael
There's nothing more to John being a bachelor than my felicitously using the term 'bachelor'. — Isaac
Whether or not your use is felicitous does not depend on what you believe. — Michael
Your belief that John is a bachelor has no bearing on whether or not John is a bachelor. You can be wrong. John being a bachelor and you believing that John is a bachelor are two very different things, with very different truth conditions. — Michael
Felicity here seems to be a matter of the spell you have cast, by speaking the word ‘bachelor’, coming off. — Srap Tasmaner
It’s wrong because it is a fact that it isn’t raining. Our perspectives are irrelevant. — Michael
No. It depends on what the language community around me believes. — Isaac
I'm talking about what the expression "I know x" means. I'm claiming that it means something like "I believe x and most people in my language community would agree with me". I'm making this claim on the basis of the fact that this is how the expression is actually used. — Isaac
Yes, and if everyone starts using 'bachelor' of John despite his obviously being a woman and married, then it's the meaning of the word 'bachelor that will have changed, not the truth of my statement. — Isaac
Yes, and if everyone starts using 'bachelor' of John despite his obviously being a woman and married, then it's the meaning of the word 'bachelor that will have changed, not the truth of my statement. — Isaac
John is a bachelor iff:
1) My language community generally believe that John is a man, and
2) My language community generally believe believe that John is unmarried
John is a bachelor iff:
1) John is a man, and
2) John is unmarried
The language community around you can incorrectly believe that I am not married when in fact I am and so incorrectly believe that I am a bachelor. — Michael
"John knows X" doesn't mean "John and I believe X." — Michael
When the entire language community claimed that the Sun revolved around the Earth, they didn't mean something else by "the Sun revolved around the Earth." They meant exactly what we mean now; they were just wrong. — Michael
The correct definition is the one I gave:
John is a bachelor iff:
1) John is a man, and
2) John is unmarried — Michael
If the entire language community uses the term 'bachelor' of a person, but you use 'wife's, how are you going to make yourself understood? What more is there to the definition of a word than it's felicitous use? — Isaac
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