"Russia" exists for Americans to absolve themselves and offshore their own entirely self-generated shitness, and if some third-rate country like Russia can take avantage of American inability to not commit war crimes on a world scale, then so much the worse for that shitty 'superpower'. Assange is a king.

Assange is a king. — StreetlightX

Peasant. :sweat:

Yes.

The WikiLeaks leak basically added onto a pile of scandals HRC already had. Since the vote between Trump and HRC was really close, it’s plausible it could have had a small effect in tipping it over. I would have leaked it after the election, it’s clear that Assange was acting on personal spite. But it’s a small impact on top of way bigger factors, is odd to describe the affair as something akin to hacking the election, especially because its releasing information citizens should ultimately know to make political decisions. In another context, more people would have interpreted that as aiding democracy instead of election tipping.

As for Russia, it’s completely understandable why they preferred Trump over Clinton, but in terms of the direction American Foreign Policy took, the evidence is overwhelming that Trump Administration’s overall foreign policy was more hawkish towards Russia than his predecessor. Breaking arms treaties, to arms sells to Ukraine, adding on sanctions, to NATO enlargement. Not hard to google “Trump was more hawkish towards Russia”. Russia wanted Trump to be Putin’s puppet but that’s not how he turned out.

As for Assange, what I think of him personally outside the election thing, he’s not like Chelsea Manning. He showed himself to be an asshole and increasingly political reactionary on social media, but some of that could have partly been the result of being not in the right state of mind being couped up under house arrest. I’m not in a position to judge as I didn’t sacrifice myself for political causes. (EDIT: There's that whole leaking innocent people's personal information scandal which is pretty bad)

That's all.
— Agent Smith

Yeah, don't think it any further, 'cause you will get hurt. — Banno

Assange did something noble. Look where he landed up. Too, where are the mass protests, the demonstrations demanding his freedom? Something's off, don't you think? Assange is alone, he made the rookie mistake of believing people care about the truth. No they don't!

It is nice to see people’s true colours shine through in matters of religions and politics.

Keep it up please :)

Assange did something noble. — Agent Smith

Helping gulag autocrats further subvert corrupt, even failing, faux-democracies is "noble"? :brow:

Helping gulag autocrats further subvert corrupt, even failing, faux-democracies is "noble"? :brow: — 180 Proof

I wasn't aware of that facet of the Assange leaks. Anyway, it doesn't look like you have a good argument. Should I keep my mouth shut about one tyrant because what I say might help another tyrant? That's what evil does to you. You're forced to look the other way and act like nothing's happened/is happening. Tough choices for someone who's in the truth/transparency business. These guys/girls need all the help they can get! Anyone?

Anyway, it doesn't look like you have a good argument. — Agent Smith

What "argument"? I've only stated the obvious. Google "wikileaks" and the "2016 US elections". The facts are not in dispute.

Assange's exposé led to foreign (Russian) interference in USA? Assange's plan, if he had one (seems unlikely), backfired. If an American kills an American, it's ok but if a Russian kills an American, it's not ok!

Educate yourself.

Educate yourself. — 180 Proof

Thanks for the advice. I'm working on it but no real strategy. Doing things on the fly - a book here, a video there, some pseudo-thinking between them when I have time to spare.

See ya!

Imagine blaming Assange for the fact that Hillary Clinton is a bloodsucking ghoul and the American political system is so fucked up that, with her as it's only alternative 'choice', some pot-shots taken advantage of by a third-rate power and amplified by domestic fanatics - i.e. half your country - got someone like Donald Trump over the line. Nah, Assange ain't at fault for the flailing of a terrorist empire who persecutes journalists for exposing their terrorism.

If your system is so fucked-up that leaks of documents that practically no one outside of a small circle of interests have ever read apart from the cliff notes - by some Australian nobody with exactly zero institutional power - than that system perhaps ought to be sunk to begin with.

He's fucked.

https://indienewsnetwork.substack.com/p/how-blue-anon-manufactured-consent

After 2016 the intelligence agencies realized they could get liberals and democratic partisans to spread their propaganda through the one issue that could get liberals to repeat anything - Russiagate. ... The claim that Assange’s source for the DNC emails was Russia was originally drummed up by a company called crowd strike that was forced to admit under oath they had no evidence the DNC emails were hacked at all let alone hacked by Russia.... This company was what the F.B.I relied on to make their claims that Russia was Jullian Assange’s source in 2016.... So to recap, the C.I.A. could not find connections between Assange and Russia, Jullian Assange and Wikileaks published documents that exposed and embarassed the Russian government, the firm behind the claims of Russia being wikileaks source in 2016 admitted they have no eviednece in court and four former intellegence officals belive the documents were leaked over hacked based on thier expertiese. ... This propaganda despite being entirely false has caused many liberals to now to hate Assange and see him as a far-right, Trump-supporting Russian agent. ... Anyone who repeated these claims has either wittingly on unwittingly taken part in a smear campaign against a journalist who has been tortured for his exposing of war crimes.

Although no doubt the relays of manufactured consent will still think they are doing anything other than regurgitating prepared scripts from those in power.

Assange is a king. — StreetlightX

I think he's something of an ass, myself. That said, he should have been allowed to go to Ecuador long ago, after it granted him asylum.

He does come across as an ass. Still, as an alternative to Ecuador, my useless, coward filled government can simply treat one of its own citizens with the respect he deserves and let him back home. Frankly they ought to gift him a harbour-view house for the service he has rendered to the world, at the very least.

I suppose the Ecuador ship has sailed, or its train has left the station, or whatever the appropriate phrase may be, but I think that's what was appropriate given the governing law as I understand it. I'm not sure whether he'd be better off there than where he is now under these circumstances, in any case.

Careful, my Aussie comrade, your Pax Americana-envy is showing again. :smirk:

https://mronline.org/2021/12/13/theyre-killing-him/

This is a nice way to put it. What the US is doing to Assange is just a more drawn out version of what Saudi Arabia did to Jamal Khashoggi. Both victims of a brutal regime happy to crush dissent and anyone that would make them look like the violent monsters they are.

"The U.S.-centralized power alliance is murdering a journalist, as surely as the Saudi regime murdered Washington Post columnist Jamal Khashoggi. The only difference is that Khashoggi was killed quickly by live dismemberment via bone saw while Assange is being killed slowly by lawfare".

And even that is putting it too nicely considering that it's open news that the CIA looked into assassinating Assange anyway. The ultimate sign that you're probably doing some good in the world. The US is just a painted over Saudi Arabia.

This is a nice way to put it. What the US is doing to Assange is just a more drawn out version of what Saudi Arabia did to Jamal Khashoggi. Both victims of a brutal regime happy to crush dissent and anyone that would make them look like the violent monsters they are. — StreetlightX

This is disgusting. if you cannot tell the difference between the grotesque murder of the journalist and the effort to bring to justice Assange - whatever you may think of that justice - then you disqualify yourself from reasonable discussion. And I'm going to flag yours - have done; I'm curious to see what happens to it.

:100: :up:

And I'm going to flag yours - have done; I'm curious to see what happens to it. — tim wood

Flag it for what?

I'm curious to see what happens to it. — tim wood

Probably the same thing that is going to happen to Trump. :wink:

if you cannot tell the difference between the grotesque murder of the journalist and the effort to bring to justice Assange — tim wood

If you can't tell the difference between an effort to bring someone to justice and a farcical showtrial to gloss over attempts to silence journalism then you disqualify yourself from reasonable discussion.

If you can't tell the difference between an effort to bring someone to justice and a farcical showtrial to gloss over attempts to silence journalism then you disqualify yourself from reasonable discussion. — Isaac

You'd have to have a farcical showtrial first, before you could tell. Well, unless you have a crystal ball. I mean, it's not like he's been gutted and carved up yet.

it's not like he's been gutted and carved up yet. — James Riley

Psychologically, he's been given the full discipline and punish treatment. But, sure, they won't be allowed to waterboard him. Probably.

Psychologically, he's been given the full discipline and punish treatment. But, sure, they won't be allowed to waterboard him. Probably. — Baden

Yeah, it's a real Novichok situation for him. No due process of law.

You'd have to have a farcical showtrial first, before you could tell. — James Riley

Yes, indeed. Likewise one would need to actually be eaten before one could really predict the outcome of jumping into the lion enclosure. So hard to tell...it's 50/50 between a powerless journalist being imprisoned for literally anything they can pin on him or the most powerful government in the world conceding to an open and frank discussion of their war crimes...a real tough call...all to play for!