Maybe small changes in neural structure and brain chemistry. — RogueAI
The clone would occupy a different point in space, would physically diverge from me right after the cloning process. These are very small changes, but who's to say whether they result in different mental states. — RogueAI
Since the contents of my mind are a black box to you and vice-versa — RogueAI
↪Agent Smith In a mirror, one can see a reflection of the eye, but one doesn't see the act of seeing, one only sees an image. This lecture (pdf format) elaborates the point — Wayfarer
Brain is a noun. Mind is a verb. They aren't identical but they're related - what the brain does is the mind. Functionalism? — Agent Smith
This distinction relies on the assumption that thinking is an exclusively subjective activity that can point at objects or point at its own subjectivity. Walking , by contrast, is assumed as an objective activity, and so doesn’t ‘point’ at anything to begin with. But we only know we’re walking becuase we are conscious of it. We can shift our awareness from what we are walking on ( the sidewalk) or where we are walking to( the store) to the act of walking itself, for instance, when we are afraid we might stumble , or we are recovering from a stroke. Being self-consciously aware of any physical activity is a meta-aboutness.I can't walk about walking BUT I can think about thinking. — Agent Smith
1. Brain is to thinking as legs is to walking
However, there's something fishy going on:
2. I can't walk about walking BUT I can think about thinking. — Agent Smith
about — Wayfarer
meta-aboutness — Joshs
stomach — Banno
We might digest what we have already digested. It's just that the results will be of increasingly low quality.
That might also be analogous to thinking. — Banno
You can digest the product of digestion, as you can think about the product of your thinking.
Eat shit and die. So to speak. — Banno
'Intentionality' was one of the major themes of a philosopher called Franz Brentano. And he was one of the seminal figures behind phenomenology, which is the school or orientation which Joshs is expert in. It's a big study, I'm not going to try and summarize it in a forum post. — Wayfarer
You can think about the product of your thinking, as you can digest the product of your digestion. — Banno
But in both cases it's probably not something to do in polite company. — Banno
Husserl derived many important concepts central to phenomenology from the works and lectures of his teachers, the philosophers and psychologists Franz Brentano and Carl Stumpf. An important element of phenomenology that Husserl borrowed from Brentano is intentionality (often described as "aboutness"), the notion that consciousness is always consciousness of something. The object of consciousness is called the intentional object, and this object is constituted for consciousness in many different ways, through, for instance, perception, memory, retention and protention, signification, etc. Throughout these different intentionalities, though they have different structures and different ways of being "about" the object, an object is still constituted as the identical object; consciousness is directed at the same intentional object in direct perception as it is in the immediately following retention of this object and the eventual remembering of it.
Though many of the phenomenological methods involve various reductions, phenomenology is, in essence, anti-reductionistic; the reductions are mere tools to better understand and describe the workings of consciousness, not to reduce any phenomenon to these descriptions. In other words, when a reference is made to a thing's essence or idea, or when the constitution of an identical coherent thing is specified by describing what one "really" sees as being only these sides and aspects, these surfaces, it does not mean that the thing is only and exclusively what is described here: the ultimate goal of these reductions is to understand how these different aspects are constituted into the actual thing as experienced by the person experiencing it. Phenomenology is a direct reaction to the psychologism and physicalism of Husserl's time. — Wikipedia, Phenomenology
the reductions are mere tools — Wikipedia, Phenomenology
Physicalism is the default in mainstream Western culture. — Wayfarer
No sense of humour. I won't labour the point. — Banno
Eat shit and die — Banno
Phenomenologists reject the concept of objective research. — Wikipedia
Like I shared with you once before, to be conscious, broadly speaking, is to have a unique (subjective) point of view. This is either an essence or a significant aspect of having a mind. I don't see how any approach that's predicated on objectivity can make any headway into understanding the mind for that reason. — Agent Smith
The modern mind-body problem arose out of the scientific revolution of the seventeenth century, as a direct result of the concept of objective physical reality that drove that revolution. Galileo and Descartes made the crucial conceptual division by proposing that physical science should provide a mathematically precise quantitative description of an external reality extended in space and time, a description limited to spatiotemporal primary qualities such as shape, size, and motion, and to laws governing the relations among them. Subjective appearances, on the other hand -- how this physical world appears to human perception -- were assigned to the mind, and the secondary qualities like color, sound, and smell were to be analyzed relationally, in terms of the power of physical things, acting on the senses, to produce those appearances in the minds of observers. It was essential to leave out or subtract subjective appearances and the human mind -- as well as human intentions and purposes -- from the physical world in order to permit this powerful but austere spatiotemporal conception of objective physical reality to develop. — Thomas Nagel, Mind and Cosmos, Pp35-36
I think, and a lot of people think, that that characteristically modern materialist mindset is on the way out. — Wayfarer
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