That may be true, but randomness also breaks the chain of Cause & Effect with an Acausal link. It's that gap in causation that may provide a way to escape from the bonds of Determinism. But, it takes intelligence and reasoning ability to take advantage of the opportunity of arbitrariness in place of necessity. :smile: — Gnomon
Happy birthday and plenty of 'glorious experiences', to enable you to make more pictures and poems. — Jack Cummins
The rest of your post is interesting — Agent Smith
Like you, I'm a seventh decade survivor of a world that has a million ways to kill you. I even lived through 4 years in and around VietNam. So, instead of feeling picked-on by Fate, I feel blessed by the freedom to choose my poison --- a very slow one. :wink:I turned 74 today and have had good luck so far; the world can't seem to kill me off, — PoeticUniverse
Thanks, but I'd rather not stare into the abyss of Deep Determinism. Anyway, I don't depend on erratic randomness to spring me from the inevitability of Cause & Effect. Instead, I'm always on the lookout for those tiny cracks in my dungeon that give me an opportunity to choose to use a spoon to widen them into an escape hole --- or rabbit hole (look before you leap!). Since those openings are rare, we must be ready to take advantage of every break from Fate we can get. :grimace:Sabine Hossenfelder has been espousing Super Determinism of late, if you want to look into it, and so here we are, between its specter and the escape as the randomness option, of all the binds and rocks and hard places to be in… — PoeticUniverse
I don't remember. Apparently, you've mis-read me. I don't take offense at the occasional "pissy" attitudes on this forum. I just can't take philosophical speculations into the unknown that seriously. It should be a fun tug-of-war without the warlike grimness. But, I'm aware that some posters are more rigid & fragile than me, so I use smilies and emoticons liberally, to indicate that I mean no harm, and in many cases I'm just kidding. Seriously! :joke:Cite the offense I've given. I'm sure you've misread me again, Gnomon. — 180 Proof
christians think something can create something. but it cant. even if a god existed he would not be able to make a creation.
what did he make it from? and where did he make it? its like pulling a rabbit out of a hat. magical thinking
something cannot come from something
we currently already have something, and logically it must be eternal and omnipresent and infinite and therefore there is no real creation. only evolution and transformation — Miller
Yes, but is that feeling of being in control of your life a truism or an illusion? That is the underlying question of this thread. The arguments typically come down to siding with Science or Religion. And most world religions, especially Christianity, make human Free Will mandatory, to govern a God who holds us responsible for our ethical behavior. Since, modern Science has demoted Freedom of Will to a "persistent illusion", it would seem that morality is optional. Unless, they can find a viable substitute for an intrinsic feeling of responsibility.I've always felt in charge, and that seems to have added to the pleasure. — PoeticUniverse
Yes, but is that feeling of being in control of your life a truism or an illusion? — Gnomon
In my blog, I hypothesize that the "more than" is a holistic effect of causal feedback loops, and the consequent complexification-of-causation. The result of that multiplication is a holistic Cybernetic system, that is more than the sum of sensory inputs. Such a complex integrated system may have novel properties (e.g. awareness) that are not found in its parts (e.g. neurons). Those internal loops in the chain of causation, might even permit Self-Causation (autonomy, freedom).Illusion. "More than" hasn't been found. — PoeticUniverse
that is more than the sum of sensory inputs — Gnomon
christians think something can create something. but it cant. even if a god existed he would not be able to make a creation.
what did he make it from? and where did he make it? its like pulling a rabbit out of a hat. magical thinking
something cannot come from something
we currently already have something, and logically it must be eternal and omnipresent and infinite and therefore there is no real creation. only evolution and transformation — Miller
By "sensory inputs" I was referring to causes or influences from the environment. It was meant to distinguish linear causes from internal processing (ruminations) that form "feedback loops". Those non-linear processes modify the incoming ambient "energy" for the specific needs of the Self. Such internal looping is what I call "multiplying" and "complexifying" of extrinsic Information, to temporarily re-direct the flow for personal use.I don't think anyone is saying the sensory inputs make for the whole of the will's analysis. There's lots more going on, plus rumination is a feedback loop. — PoeticUniverse
there is an infinite number of me's out there in the infinite reality
and an infinite number of variations of me's and you's — Miller
The world has enough problems with just one of me! — Agent Smith
we have an inboard motor to allow us to go against the flow . . . to some degree — Gnomon
go back in time and talk to yourself and you will argue with yourself and disagree with each others beliefs — Miller
every 5 years you are a different person who would not aggree with the previous one — Miller
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