I think a distinction between my unconscious decisions and actions and conscious ones is artificial and pointless. — T Clark
I'm in favor of bettering the breed, but that gets us into the difficult questions of how determinism determines outcomes. What, exactly, do we select in prospective breeding pairs (besides overall hotness). Brains? Risk aversion? Emotional stability? Enough obsessive compulsivity to assure rule-compliance? Minimal ambitiousness? Etc. — Bitter Crank
I take it you would like to be on the candidate selection committee--yes? — Bitter Crank
I find pure materialist physics very unconvincing, worse than unconvincing - meaningless. But this is not the place to go into that. — T Clark
On the other hand, some people understand our lack of free will to be dependent on a materialistic interpretation of basic ontology. — T Clark
I have my own answer and I’m not interested in discussing that right now. What I want to discuss is whether or not it matters if we have free will. — T Clark
People holding others accountable is one of the mechanisms by which their actions are determined. — T Clark
Perhaps a conscious decision is one where we logically weigh all factors and do some sort of analytics to determine a course of action, whereas most decisions just seem to come to us after pondering. I see a difference. — jgill
The lack of free will follows from a materialistic interpretation of basic ontology. If one ascribes to a purely materistic ontology than accepting the lack of free will should follow from that premise. This type of metaphysics though relegates human experience to the realm of the 'unreal', only the third person perspective decides what is really really real. It is a metaphysical position. I am not saying I also ascribe to it. I do not think we are very far apart, if at all on this point. — Tobias
That's why it is better to get rid of accountability, responsibility, guilt, a moral consciousness, or similar nonsense all together. Aren't they just instruments to constrain, forbid, or limit thoughts and actions to fit the expectations of the ones applying them? Isn't this feature imposed on people? To get rid of unwanted behavior and thinking by holding them accountable and making them feel guilty if thinking certain thoughts or performing certain actions? — Raymond
So if there is a will only, without it being free or not, and no such thing as accountability, the question doesn't make sense. — Raymond
Accountability hasn't been proven to exist scientifically, and any claim to its existence is speculative. — Raymond
I guess we have no choice but to ask what decision should we make in a world where we can not make decisions. — T Clark
This is a surprising statement for someone who has started a discussion about good will!! :grin:I hate discussions of free will — T Clark
accountability" from the web:
The state of being accountable or answerable; responsibility for the fulfilment of obligations; liability to account for conduct, meet or suffer consequences, etc.: as, to hold a trustee to his accountability; the accountability of parents toward their children, or of men toward God. — T Clark
Best I can tell is that free will is rejected solely because at some point it was understood to be a product of a creator God. Post enlightenment rejection of religion seems to be more appealing than dismissing the hollow argument that free will implies random action, so the game goes on. — Cheshire
So, what’s the answer? Does it make sense to hold people accountable for their actions given that there is no free will? — T Clark
To me, all this irrespective of there being, or not being, a Creator Deity. But these are the types of differences that make a difference in relation to free will. — javra
While true, a good Bayesian analysis would consider factors such as the history of cultural myths or religions and how they might inform (or be informed by) common conceptions of things such as free will. — Reformed Nihilist
I don't know if the question is meaningful to someone in china or someone living in a remote village in the amazon. I do know it is in the western world. — Reformed Nihilist
Liability, accountability, responsibility guilt, etc. are just inventions to give people the false impression that they are in charge of their thoughts and actions, — Raymond
If the accountability is installed in people, then they have the false idea that it's them who are in charge of what they do or think, and are accountable for what they think or do, while it are in fact the imposers of the accountability who are in charge of the thoughts and actions they want to control by introducing accountability. — Raymond
So, what’s the answer? Does it make sense to hold people accountable for their actions given that there is no free will?
For clarity, are you intending to say that belief in free will's reality entails belief in a Creator Deity? — javra
In a culture with a long history of religion whose central point is the immateriality and immortality of the soul, if free will didn't exist, it would be more likely to arise and be supported as a concept. That doesn't lead to any necessary conclusions, but it is a factor that should be added to a Bayesian analysis. Make sense? — Reformed Nihilist
All language is just an invention to give people the impression that they are in charge of their thoughts and actions. — T Clark
If I lend you $100 with the understanding you will pay it back in a month, am I trying to impose my control when I ask for payment 30 days later? — T Clark
I should clarify the point. The belief that free will is historically an affirmative indication of a theist world. Not simply that one implies the other. Suggesting the existence of a historical bias, rather than a logical implication. Si?I'm not a theist, but I don't reject free will. — T Clark
Does it make sense to hold people accountable for their actions given that there is no free will? — T Clark
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