The only thing left to do is to accept the wrath of the almighty Creator, succumb to His Divine Word, bow to His Infinite Creation, and show eternal gratitude for His Wisdom, given to us by His Word, to be heard by submissive prayer only. Let's pray He will get a grip and restore Natural order. If not, we are doomed for sure.

I know that the western train should slow down instead of race up, productivity shrink instead of inflate, energy be clean instead of smelly and portable instead of static, and products be renewable instead of disposable if we want Nature to survive. If we want future people to live.

Let's hope our Lord , Savior, and Great Redeemer Zeus, will award the chosen ones and give them a place in the paradise to come.

We could also fall prey to the current mode of living, and watch paradise fall apart while replacing it by an inflationary expanding artificial.Enjoy the artificial fruits growing on the tress of science, growing up high to the sky. Sucking Gaia empty, transforming Her life energy in artificially intelligent matter systems, programmed on mad rate and rythm. Propagating humanity within linear bounds and confines, so it becomes predictable and controllable.

I don't say that the creation is holy, actually. I think Zeus doesn't give a damn. He might restore paradise, he might not. If you mean by paradise nature as it was before unnatural intervention. Still, I think it's a good way to teach people at least some respect for nature, if not by endless admiration, then by pointing out that life won't be possible anymore soon if the modern way is continued.
Which might not be a catastrophe per se but still... And who knows? Maybe Zeus actually punishes people disturbing nature by the endless desire for inflation. Though it's probably me punishing. The biblical image of Sodom and Gammora comes close. It's not God destroying and the "sin" is not sexual. Nature will just be fucked up by the "sin" of the western way. It's of course no sin, but just one way amongst many, Though the many become less and less, and the one more one than ever. Let's hope the best! But if I look realistically, it's depressing. While it's so easy to give all a future of roses and sunshine.

And now, dear brothers and sisters, let's hold hands and prey... Oh heavenly Father, Great Creator of Being...

Is it like this all the time and everywhere? All sizzle, no steak!? — Agent Smith

Try this on for size: Catastrophe theory

I had a math friend, a fellow climber in fact, who worked with Thom. This topic made a stir when it first came out. Not so much now. I recently discovered there are 22,705 math articles on Wikipedia. Catastrophe theory ranks mid-importance and has a daily average of 4 views. My math page is low importance and has 16 views a day. Trivia.

The only thing left to do is to accept the wrath of the almighty Creator, succumb to His Divine Word, bow to His Infinite Creation, and show eternal gratitude for His Wisdom, given to us by His Word, to be heard by submissive prayer only. Let's pray He will get a grip and restore Natural order. If not, we are doomed for sure. — Raymond

Maybe you should skip Bible Study Group next week. Take a breather. :roll:

Maybe you should skip Bible Study Group next week. Take a breather. :roll: — jgill

Catastrophe theory makes it perfectly clear: the Heavenly Holiness should be worshipped with every divinely created bone in our submissive and humble bodies. If not,
He will, without remorse, and firmly, strictly, and justified, bestow humanity with his Ivory Bashing, and catastrophe will descend from His untouchable and unshakeable Sacred Realm, cleansing the Earth from a God-forgotten species, unwillingly to bath in His immaculate light and conform to His unquestionable Will. Brothers and sisters, let's hold hands and prey together. Let's ask the Great Annointed to release us from our pagan ways, and to restore his blissful order before too long. Oh unparalelled Being, our blessed King and Savior! Bless Thou Glorious name, leading us to Ultimate Victory. :wink:

there will need to be a vanguard of the truthful, the spirited to guide us from our wicked ways and we might still be spared. — Tobias

That's exactly what is going on already. The spirited being the advocates of the one and only way and their representatives in current institutes of power, law-making, and education. Excluding other ways, in spirit and in practice. It's not wrong to advocate for the one and only way, but imposing it by law, while maybe not in spirit (though from young age we are already subject to it), while excluding the others is no less than..., well, I will not use the word. The scientific way is not good or bad as it is. I love science! It seems to me that its consequences are pretty clear too. And because it's one way amongst many (though not many left), we can better learn from each other in a peaceful state of coexistence, for who has the ultimate measure of truth?

What you describe is I think currently being developed. It has always been there in Western thought actually but it has not always been dominant. Schwarz and Thompson, two economists and sociologists define it as an 'egalitarian perspective', Sociologist Aaron Wildavsky defines it as a perspective of harmony. Traditional enlightnement values, values we still live with today proritize control of nature through technological means and progress through economic an cultural development.

The harmony perspective on the other hand is the one embraced by ecology. The sociologist and ecologist Anna Bramwell calls much of ecological reasoning and environmentalism 'manichean', presenting a battle between good nature and evil techno-science. Much of philosophy now is busy transllating philosophical ideas to the realm of the environment and to our relationship between man and nature. Martin Heidegger's essay on technology is an early example. Then came Hans Jonas 'The principle of responsibility'.

You might want to delve in ecological thought for answers to your question. I do think currently that we gradually see a shift in perspective, from individualist to egalitarian. However, do not have many illusions about this shift, like every revolution there will be a lot of struggle. Ecology is not necessary friendly to your enlightenment values and your love for democracy. — Tobias

It appears you are very well-read and that is honorable. However, I must address what looks to me as an attack on technology and democracy.

Thomas Jefferson is one of my favorite authors. It is from him and classical philosophy that we learn the pursuit of happiness means lifelong learning and mass education is the only way to protect our democracy and liberty. However, that needs to include a classical or liberal education, math (to learn logical thinking skills), and science. We replaced that education with the German model of education for technology and now have what we defended our democracy against. We are as Germany was when Hitler took power because that is what that education for technology manifest. This is a disaster!

"Good education is essential for every human being. Educated people have a better understanding of the world, and their perspective about different things is better and more informed." Jefferson

"Educate and inform the whole mass of the people… They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty." Jefferson

"I know no safe depository of the ultimate powers of the society but the people themselves; and if we think them not enlightened enough to exercise their control with a wholesome discretion, the remedy is not to take it from them, but to inform their discretion by education. This is the true corrective of abuses of constitutional power." Jefferson

"Enlighten the people, generally, and tyranny and oppressions of body and mind will vanish like spirits at the dawn of day." Jefferson

There is no way we could keep the mass of humanity alive, that fills the earth today, without technology. We would not have growing populations of long-lived people without technology. We could not have the economies that enable us to provide a decent standard of living for so many people without technology.
However, technology is not science, and technology without wisdom can destroy life on this planet.
We need more than education for technology. We need a classical/liberal education as well so we have the wisdom to use our technology well. If we can achieve this before it is too late is questionable. This is going to be a tight horse race and either we will enter a New Age, a time of high tech and peace, and the end of tyranny, or we won't. It depends on how well the masses are educated. With the media we have today, there is no excuse for doing as poorly as we have done.

He will, without remorse, and firmly, strictly, and justified, bestow humanity with his Ivory Bashing, and catastrophe will descend from His untouchable and unshakeable Sacred Realm, cleansing the Earth from a God-forgotten species, unwillingly to bath in His immaculate light and conform to His unquestionable Will. Brothers and sisters, let's hold hands and prey together. Let's ask the Great Annointed to release us from our pagan ways, and to restore his blissful order before too long. Oh unparalelled Being, our blessed King and Savior! Bless Thou Glorious name, leading us to Ultimate Victory. — Raymond

Good jokes ongoing.

I am not sure if this relates to your topic but some people believe that the current climate change and some other problems are the vengeance of God. The Old Testament shows that God has a wrathful anger as well as having the loving and forgiving aspects represented by the figure of Jesus. — Jack Cummins

I understand that and that superstition has led to a very bad situation. The believers and nonbelievers are in a serious conflict. I have found public broadcasting to be very informative and take hope in that.
That is a hope science wins out against superstition.

I am also aware of the ancient prediction that sooner or later there will be more life on earth than the earth can support. I do not believe predictions of doom are just superstition but also the result of observation and logic. I feel so passionate about this because if we believe what is happening is the result of human choices, we can take steps to manage the problem. If we think what is happening is all about a God, we are powerless to make necessary changes. Just as Christians made themselves powerless against Genghis Khan when they believed God sent Genghis Khan to punish them. At this time in history, such superstition should no longer be such a big problem!

Japan is offering us an interesting alternative as it is blending technology with human needs. They are evolving the ability to be very productive with fewer humans. Not only more produtive but also they are building our humanness into that technology. Our technological society needs to increase its human sensitivities.

The New Age holds so much promise and this is such an exciting time. There is a chance of a new enlightenment that will be manifest in consciousness so different from the past, the people of the future will not be able to relate to the primitive lives we have had, of humans exploiting humans, other animals, and the planet with no reverence for our planet and other life forms. We need a different value system and some people know that. :grin:

At this time in history, such superstition should no longer be such a big problem! — Athena

Don't let the big numbers (2022) fool you. This is still the Dark Age: still the Age of Christs and Kings.

The Enlightenment's down-trickle's discouragingly drip-drip.

Try this on for size: Catastrophe theory — jgill

Way above my pay grade, jgill.

Catastrophe theory, from what I could grasp from the Wikipedia entry, is facing strong opposition from some quarters regarding its real-world application. Why is that? I thought mathematicians were very keen to find some practical use for their theories. Envy? Are the detractors of Catastrophe theory just being jealous jerks?

I thought mathematicians were very keen to find some practical use for their theories. — Agent Smith

Most are not concerned about this, being immersed in their explorations of the subject. Staggering isn't it? Over 20K math topics on Wiki.

The New Age holds so much promise and this is such an exciting time. There is a chance of a new enlightenment that will be manifest in consciousness so different from the past, the people of the future will not be able to relate to the primitive lives we have had . . . — Athena

This is dialogue right out of the wonderful 1936 film Things to Come

Most are not concerned about this, being immersed in their explorations of the subject. Staggering isn't it? Over 20K math topics on Wiki — jgill

:ok: It's amazing how vast math is; the same goes for other disciplines too I suppose. There's absolutely no hope for a generalist these days. G'day.

There is no way we could keep the mass of humanity alive, that fills the earth today, without technology. We would not have growing populations of long-lived people without technology. We could not have the economies that enable us to provide a decent standard of living for so many people without technology.
However, technology is not science, and technology without wisdom can destroy life on this planet.
We need more than education for technology. We need a classical/liberal education as well so we have the wisdom to use our technology well. If we can achieve this before it is too late is questionable. This is going to be a tight horse race and either we will enter a New Age, a time of high tech and peace, and the end of tyranny, or we won't. It depends on how well the masses are educated. With the media we have today, there is no excuse for doing as poorly as we have done. — Athena

It is a funny thing. Athena is also my favorite Greek goddess and if I will ever have a daughter I will lobby to give her the name Athena. I do see the value in a good classical education which I too have enjoyed. Therefore, I am not attacking democracy or enlightenment values. I look at these things from a sociological perspective, which type of society do I see emerging and what lines of argument do I see 'winning' in the argumentative arena. In your OP you called for a more ecological worldview, at least it seemed to me and you used arguments which you seemed to hint at argument which you also see (rather crude) environmentalists make. "Our technology is upsetting the natural balance of life and in order to avert destruction we have to use technology differently, namely in the service of the environment and restore the balance with nature that was present in the past". I do not know if you were going along that path, but it seemed like it.

You do argue in a similar vein as they do. They of course have the best intentions with this world, as you undoubtedly also do. The problem is that they often use terms that remain vague or obscure. For instance 'wisdom'. sure, we need wisdom, what can be wrong with that? But what does it mean in this context? You say science is not technology, but they are often intertwined. The vaccine against corona is a cooperation between the science of biology and the technology to use this science in an applied way. One is not seperable from the other. Education is another term you keep vague. Yes, a liberal education, but what will be in it? Will we tell the tale of how we managed to increase longevity eradicate hunger and poverty from large sections of the world, or will we tell the tael of ecological degradation, nuclear warheads and the eradication of cultures and biodiversity?

My warning to you is, maybe you cannot have your cake and eat it too. You want democracy and humanist values and you complain that we have now 'become like Hitler Germany', but especially the manichean battle against chaos you mention was a trope for Hitler Germany. The relationship between National socialist thought and green thought is far from clear. You equate national socialism with blind technology, but especially that is what a thinker like Martin Heidegger characerized the US in the 1930s of. In Hitler Germany he saw a 'third way', a rejuvenation, against technology! If anything Hitler Germany was not anti-Green. So the problem is, even though you want the good for the world and you think your points are helping it come about, you might end up with something that is not so amenable to democracy and enlightenment at all.

It's amazing how vast math is; the same goes for other disciplines too I suppose — Agent Smith

Over 24K physics articles on Wikipedia. :gasp:

Seems like modern society is never finished. We divide up history according to technological progress and scientific knowledge, and direct the future towards new inventions and increasing knowledge. Thereby retreating from nature more and more, while at the same time haven't been deeper, looked farther ahead and back in time, haven't seen as small or big as today, reached further than ever, never built as high before, constructed as much as now, discovered every inch of the Earth, mapped all stars in the sky, catalogued human DNA as well as other species, have almost reconstructed the sun down here, developed artificial intelligences operating on pentaHz clocks, records are broken as a matter of excercise, life lives in air-conditioned isolated spaces, infuse the young with efficiency and economic values, and have a craving need for growth and inflation, with the purpose to grow even further. Nature, I feel pity and compassion for you. I know you by heart, while most scientist claim an abstract and void knowledge. So be it...

Over 24K physics articles on Wikipedia — jgill

The tip of the iceberg. A small portion of a much larger corpus of knowledge.

My warning to you is, maybe you cannot have your cake and eat it too. You want democracy and humanist values and you complain that we have now 'become like Hitler Germany', but especially the manichean battle against chaos you mention was a trope for Hitler Germany. The relationship between National socialist thought and green thought is far from clear. You equate national socialism with blind technology, but especially that is what a thinker like Martin Heidegger characerized the US in the 1930s of. In Hitler Germany he saw a 'third way', a rejuvenation, against technology! If anything Hitler Germany was not anti-Green. So the problem is, even though you want the good for the world and you think your points are helping it come about, you might end up with something that is not so amenable to democracy and enlightenment at all. — Tobias

When the priority of US education was education for good citizenship, we used the Conceptual method. That is teaching increasingly complex concepts. Under this system, there are only a few right or wrong answers. Rather than knowing the right answer, there are only are different points of view. This leads to overall uncertainty and some find a problem with that. I see that as the solution to our worst problems. Those who think can know the will of God and absolute truth, are absolutely dangerous and this is our greatest international and national problem today! Good logic acknowledges we do know everything and should always move forward with a little dought in what we think we know.

Education for technology destroyed a much wiser system of education and lead the young to believe that with technology and the right education for technology they can be superior to their elders, and superior to people in other nations, and superior to all those who do not have their education. We have promoted ideas of superiority in obvious ways, such as the notion that going to the "right colleges" makes people superior to those who just went to a community or a state college. Or those who have A grades are superior to those who have C grades. Or those who believe this and not that, are superior. Perhaps if we continue to discuss this I can think of betters words for explaining what has gone terribly wrong! It is not just that what we know that is important but also how we learn to think.

We replaced the Conceptual method with the Behaviorist method and the Behaviorist method is also used for teaching dogs. The Behaviorist method goes with "No Child Left Behind" and core education and teaching to prepare children how to answer correctly on tests. :broken: That is not education for wisdom nor is it education for democracy. I don't know if my words are explaining the importance of the difference? What we have is what Hitler had when he came to power and this is not the democracy we defended in two world wars. Washington was a very humble man who doubted his wisdom. Now we seem to demand our presidents be egomaniacs who throw their weight around and act tough and aren't afraid to make demands of leaders of other countries. That is not democracy but the path to war. I am extremely disappointed with Biden and his get-tough talks that attack the dignity of national leaders. Having an exclusive meeting for democratic leaders and excluding China or any other country is not how democracy works!

Catastrophe theory makes it perfectly clear: the Heavenly Holiness should be worshipped with every divinely created bone in our submissive and humble bodies. If not,
He will, without remorse, and firmly, strictly, and justified, bestow humanity with his Ivory Bashing, and catastrophe will descend from His untouchable and unshakeable Sacred Realm, cleansing the Earth from a God-forgotten species, unwillingly to bath in His immaculate light and conform to His unquestionable Will. Brothers and sisters, let's hold hands and prey together. Let's ask the Great Annointed to release us from our pagan ways, and to restore his blissful order before too long. Oh unparalelled Being, our blessed King and Savior! Bless Thou Glorious name, leading us to Ultimate Victory. — Raymond

:gasp: And maybe we should burn "those people" who reject God, out of town so God will stop being angry with us? Or maybe we should be walking from town to town whipping ourselves to appease the God that is punishing us with a deadly disease?

I think there is only one way nature can be saved. To stop the economic machinery that spews out disposables with an inflationary rate, recreates nature to fit this goal, educates the masses on global scale to participate on the base of knowledge of nature from which they are further removed than ever before, turns thought into a logical process to come up with new ideas for sustaining and enlarging, automating, or improving the machinery and creation of new products on the base of an artificial knowledge, forces the non-complying to comply by technological force, and controls with a mindfucking omnipresence and potency. The face of the Earth is restructured, holes are dug, underneath the surface nature is sucked empty, or stuffed with poison which can't be puffed into the air. The growth of the machine is called progress and temporary stagnation recess, which only serves as a break for the reigning powers, in which they consolidate and plan for future development.

The world is artificially and with a false notion of self importance divided in a first, a second, and a third world, while this so-called first world arrived on stage last and whiped out worlds that existed long before to give a false impression and even the road for expansion, by means of the technology so worshipped. And now this third world are denigratingly called the developing world, while they are in a more miserable state then ever and suffer the most from the chaos in nature that only increases the longer we impose our crazy new order, the second law of thermodynamics backing me up here.

Great value is assigned to possessing the cleverness to participate in the system, and much time is spent to make propagate the importance of knowledge and technology,
creating a longing for it, acquiring it, and using it to... should I go on?

This is of course a pretty depressing and black vision. But it's a realistic one. There is no god battering the eaarth with his wrath, it's simply a natural fact that if we impose an artificial technological order on nature, the natural order will get fucked up and natural chaos will replace it. The image of a God unleashing chaos on nature is a powerful one. No doubt there is a god, or more, and created the universe, and their creation is a wonderful one, but maybe the destruction of their creation is of no importance for them, and is maybe even what they are waiting for. Who knows. Keeping nature in order is in our own interest and of course in the interest of all other creatures created by the Holy Creator, to who we can only bow in great awe and fortunate obedience! Praise His Name! So brothers and sisters, let's pray, to indulge in the heavenly wonders... well... fuck that...

So, why not slowing down? Why not look at knowledge as an art, with state of the art technology? Why not installing solar panels on every roof, intensify the search for managable fusion, use hydrogen tomorrow, and free people from the system? Best would be if we all just are put to sleep for a 1000 years and give nature a breather so we can be kissed awake and finally feel home in a world from which we are estranged and only the possessing class seems to feel well and project their silly ways into the world?

There is no god battering the eaarth with his wrath, it's simply a natural fact that if we impose an artificial technological order on nature, the natural order will get fucked up and natural chaos will replace it — Raymond

Imagine if all those vehicles stranded on I95 for 24 hours in snow and ice had been electric.

Best would be if we all just are put to sleep for a 1000 years and give nature a breather so we can be kissed awake and finally feel home in a world from which we are estranged and only the possessing class seems to feel well and project their silly ways into the world? — Raymond

What I read said within 30 years 50% of the carbon dioxide would be removed from the atmosphere. I think that would stabilize things. However, we need to reduce the number of people on the planet if we are to live in harmony with nature. I think we need to figure out the natural limits for every city, By that, I mean without importing anything, including water, how many people could live off the land? Then make it a goal to maintain a limited population that can live in harmony with the land. This would require adopting an aboriginal reverence for the land like a religion with a crazy notion that violating the laws of nature will have bad consequences. Which in turn requires science to understand the laws of nature and how to live with them.

The only thing left to do is to accept the wrath of the almighty Creator, succumb to His Divine Word, bow to His Infinite Creation, and show eternal gratitude for His Wisdom, given to us by His Word, to be heard by submissive prayer only. Let's pray He will get a grip and restore Natural order. If not, we are doomed for sure. — Raymond

No God can save the planet, only humans can stop the destruction. It is about morals and morals mean knowing the laws of nature and good manners. Those two things would resolve many problems.

Imagine if all those vehicles stranded on I95 for 24 hours in snow and ice had been electric. — jgill

How would that make a difference?

No God can save the planet, — Athena

Dunno. Only by a strict following of His Final, Undubitable and Infallible Word, humanity can be saved from eternal damnation and premature extermination.

Ah yes, The One Eternal, that Fortuitous Indolent Inert Being, praise His Name until the Day of Doom, who created the Sacred Universe by a Holy Ejaculation of The Word. Logos, He spoke.

We can only find True Joy in life by listening with our full religious being to His Wondrous and Wide Word. And spreading it into every earthly soul, thereby acknowledging the submissive and bowing part we have to play in His Glorious Creation, that Magnificent Manor, in which we can receive a holy washing from our inborn sins only by conversion from the cursed ways to the Path of True Heavenly Enlightenment.

Genuine Joy can only be felt by receiving His True Ejaculate and accepting it voluntarily. If not voluntarily accepted, the wrath of the Truly Righteous Beloved will be legitimate, righteous, and justified, and directed towards those who refuse to conform to the wisely revised edition of His Blissful Word, flowing from His Crystal Sparkling Spring.

A stoning will descend from the celestial sphere, thereby cleansing the Earth from the disturbing wicked elements that stubbornly resist to comply and be recipient to the Golden Ejaculation emanating from His Infinite Erectedness like a brightly colored fountain. The idle, sanctimonious, and pharisaic erections, and the false ejaculates spat out off it, can only be acted against by the incandescent Ejaculate of the immense Erected, and it will strike the ephemeral with unprecedented force to restore the eudomoniatic state of Divine Dedication and Total Obedience.

Only by strictly attending to the confines of the Honest and Pure Trail of the Word spoken by the Incendiary Erect Being, one can hope to avoid the amnesiac beating of His Stern Stick.

So brothers and sisters, let's pray, and show the Greatest and Most Appreciated that we are a faithful image of the Holy Erection that only speak out the True Logos of the Pure Ejaculate. Let's turn our sinful heads away from the raped ramifications tentatively lurking in the dark, luring us invitingly to step in the nefarious and ill traps of non-belief, causing the nasty and mucky ways of our pitiful fellow men, who can only be true fellow men if the Holy Ejaculate from the Heavenly Erected is injected by fierce force and severe determination.

Let's pray that the megalomanic erections our fellow men show in their ruthless plays for merciless domination, will be righteously unearthed and sent to eternal oblivion. Let's send the heavenly armies to those who erect blindly, let's show them no remorse.

The earthly erections should be subjugated to the Gigantic and Sublime Erection of the Grand Erected. Only by receiving the Holy Ejaculate salvation can be expected.

Let's pray, brothers and sisters. Let's pray that the bombastic and pompous ejaculations of the crooked deviant will be counteracted by Consecrated Ejaculate. Only by acknowledging (the) Great Erect, (the) Great Ejaculate can be received and turn the deviant into compliant. Only by complying to the One and True Erect and by receiving the Undubitable and Immaculate Ejaculate, salvation can be expected.

So, brothers and sisters in the Proper Ejaculate, children of the Proper Erection, what is the proper reason for our prayers, orisons, and invocations? The proper reason petitioning the Undeniable Anointed lies in amoral self-righteous erect used by fellow men to spawn amoral sinful ejaculate. The Essential and Eternal Erect and the Eponymous Ejaculate can't be turned against though!!! If the Eternal Erect and Ejaculate are challenged, ignored, ridiculed, or suppressed, the deviant elements should not be surprised if proper action followed their diversion from the Proper Erect and Proper Ejaculate. If the ignorant deviant will not comply voluntarily to the Untouchable, Mercurial Erect and Ejaculate, no merci should be expected when their false erects and wickedly ejected ejaculates are methodologically cut out, including all abject roots.

The ignorant deviant should be educated properly and restructured. The True Errect and Ejaculate should be imposed gently, whilst force should be applied if being gentle doesn't suffice. Praying might help to eradicate the roots. It establishes a community, which might be able to get rid of unwanted ejaculations or erections. The words transpire to our Beloved Lord and the Shining Beacon of Humanity will forcefully push down the erects of the deviant and reduce ignorant and contemptuous ejaculate.

Let's pray, brothers and sisters. Let's ask the Miraculous, Statuous,. and Astute Director to redirect the deviant who lost track of the Great and Pure Erect. Let's ask the Firm Founder to redirect the deviant who falsely ejaculates from a deviant erect, opposing the Essence of the Pinciple of Ejaculation.

If we do not comply to the Great Mysterious Pristine and continue to erect and ejaculate inflationary, the Great Admired Regulator will aim His Divine Ejaculation towards Earth and the sky will be filled with lightning and thunder, the Great Diluve will flood our damned erections, and our dirty ejaculates will be whiped away consistently and efficiently. Then it will be silent and on the remnants of the corrupted ejaculate the Eternal Erect and Immaculate Ejaculate will install themselves again, never to be taken down again.

To be read firmly, strictly, eloquently. Self-assured and exalted, implying moral superiority. Charismatic like our friend JC.

No God can save the planet, only humans can stop the destruction. It is about morals and morals mean knowing the laws of nature and good manners. Those two things would resolve many problems. — Athena

Moral means knowing the laws of Nature? Isn't knowing these laws the cause of the chaos we increasingly observe in Nature?
I know what you mean, but if we don't want to find out how Nature behaves at all levels, in every direction, and at every height and depth, wouldn't that be better for Nature? We are taught from small age that acquiring knowledge is of uttermost importance. The children are treated as ignorant to be filled with a kind of knowledge only possessed by the ruling power, which makes the claim of possessing objective knowledge to be obtained by strict methods. The methods as well as the value judgement of the importance of the subject matter is subjective though, but in modern society it's made the so-called objective norm, while this so-called objectivity is just a label to cover the subjective essence, thereby lending it a justified power position, like God was once used to justify claims on power.

How would that make a difference? — Athena

I like the idea of driving an electric car. As a high school student in the early 1950s I would take the electric buses in Atlanta downtown frequently. But an accident involving electric vehicles is scary. All that electrical energy could fry you to a crisp. Gasoline is dangerous, too, but it's not "alive" like electricity.

But imagine all those cars, buses and trucks running out of power in dire conditions, and then efforts to charge them all to get started again. Whereas along comes a truck squirting a couple of gallons of gas into tanks as it slowly passes by.

However, technology will improve for E-vehicles.

Hydrogen cars would be great. You can even drink water from the exhaust pipe.

It's since the Enlightenment, when the ancient Greek ideas were reinvented, that a part of mankind started to live in a way that inevitably leads to the fall of civilization, dragging along nature. Before the enlightenment mankind lived peacefully in balance with nature over 100 000 years.The irony or paradox is that despite of science claiming to have knowledge about nature, mankind is farther removed from it than ever. Science poses man vis a vis with nature. Nature is restructured to fit knowledge claims. The biologist is disappointed when a species disappears, because then the species can't be studied anymore...

Although I don't believe that it's always wrong to procreate (since I believe that it can be good to preserve the ineffably meaningful experiences of life, just as it would be good to eliminate the bad ones), I do think that people shouldn't be creating beings in the current situation without ensuring that they are capable of giving them a sufficiently valuable life. Hopefully, ideas such as transhumanism and the RTD can help significantly reduce harms.

Don't let the big numbers (2022) fool you. This is still the Dark Age: still the Age of Christs and Kings.

The Enlightenment's down-trickle's discouragingly drip-drip. — ZzzoneiroCosm

:up: :clap:

Although I don't believe that it's always wrong to procreate (since I believe that it can be good to preserve the ineffably meaningful experiences of life, just as it would be good to eliminate the bad ones) — DA671

I don’t think ineffably meaningful experiences on its own means anything. It’s not an entity onto itself. If no human exists, there is no person that exists that is missing out on anything, including meaning. It would only be a parent projecting their misplaced sadness on a thing that doesn’t exist.