They most certainly do represent the limits of what we can sensibly talk about. — creativesoul
:up: At last!Witt is wrong. The limits of our language do not represent the limits of our world. They most certainly do represent the limits of what we can sensibly talk about. — creativesoul
It's not about communication in general. @ceativesoul mentioned "talk about". (Since words here are the main factor.) Otherwise, we can communicate with others in a lot of different ways ...Without a language we cannot communicate with others — pfirefry
Ethics is not at all transcendental --not in a Kantian sense or a supernatural or abstract way or exceeding experience. It is something very practical, real and rational. It has to do with survival and well being.Wittgenstein wrote in TLP 6.421 "It is clear that ethics cannot be put into words. Ethics is transcendental". — RussellA
Witt is wrong. The limits of our language do not represent the limits of our world. They most certainly do represent the limits of what we can sensibly talk about. — creativesoul
...the thread is divided between those who read an aphorism and those who read the Tractatus. — Banno
Witt is wrong. The limits of our language do not represent the limits of our world. They most certainly do represent the limits of what we can sensibly talk about. — creativesoul
Tractatus:
1, the world is all that is the case — Banno
Hence the world is limited to what is the case, to what can be stated. — Banno
Charity. — Banno
Hence the world is limited to what is the case, to what can [potentially] be stated [by an intelligence with access to what is the case]. — ZzzoneiroCosm
The limits of our language do not represent the limits of our world. They most certainly do represent the limits of what we can sensibly talk about. — creativesoul
A point of clarity: being unstated and being unstateable - do you see them as different?
So better: What is unknown about the world at the moment is unstated, but is nevertheless stateable — Banno
What is unknown about the world at the moment is unstated, but is nevertheless stateable. — Banno
Take drivable. Here is a car that's drivable but at this time no one on earth and nothing in the universe has driven it. — ZzzoneiroCosm
Can anyone state it? — ZzzoneiroCosm
If they could not, then how is it a proposition? — Banno
You seem tone deaf to the point here, which is that propositions can be stated. While one can have a car that cannot be driven, one cannot have a proposition that can not be stated. — Banno
But we were talking about an unknown not a proposition. — ZzzoneiroCosm
....the world is limited to what is the case, — ZzzoneiroCosm
What is the case is what can be placed into propositional form. That's what "what is the case" means. — Banno
Witt is wrong. The limits of our language do not represent the limits of our world. They most certainly do represent the limits of what we can sensibly talk about. — creativesoul
being unstated and being unstateable - do you see them as different? — Banno
So where Banno is content to say an unknown is statable, creative would like to place the unknown beyond the "limits of language." This is the portion of his world beyond the limits of language. — ZzzoneiroCosm
...we have an unknown that you say is statable but at this time no one on earth and nothing in the universe can state it. — ZzzoneiroCosm
...on my view the unknown is akin to Kant's Noumena in that very specific way. — creativesoul
1, the world is all that is the case.
Hence the world is limited to what is the case, to what can be stated. — Banno
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