Ok! I take my words back. I think it is you who got bored with the people...In the past, I would regularly go to the monthly concerts of the resident symphony orchestra, the chamber music groups, and the occasional fancier performances held by VIP guests or at VIP venues (like an organ concert at the cathedral).
Back then, I was quite naive and wasn't all that aware of the class issues. I actually stopped going to the concerts mainly because I saw myself becoming a snob and didn't have the money to justify it. For example, for a piano concerto, I would pick a seat in the front row right before the piano, so that I could focus on the piano best. Or I would collect and compare different interpretations of the same piece, and I would get a thrill out of watching out for how each interpretation handled a particular passage. I just don't have it in me to "sit down, relax, and enjoy" the music. I don't know how other people do it. — baker
If they genuinely like the music, why on Earth not?So you really, genuinely believe that anyone, regardless of socioeconomic status, can be the appropriate audience for a classical music piece?
If yes, what is the basis of this belief of yours? — baker
How is it that, for example, Lady Gaga, who, given her education and musical experience, should know better, nevertheless makes such mediocre music? — baker
A tortured artist is a stock character and stereotype who is in constant torment due to frustrations with art, other people, or the world in general. The trope is often associated with mental illness.
but we we're always at the cheapest seats high up many times on the last row sweating. — ssu
Question: If you can't tell where the "art work" ends and the "vandalism" begins, then how much creative value does the work have? — Bitter Crank
Are petroglyphs more archeological in value, or is this "art" — Bitter Crank
Ok! I take my words back. I think it is you who got bored with the people... — ssu
Your front row experience make's me remember when I was a child, I was dragged to see ballets with my father and his cousins family. Actually I liked it, but we we're always at the cheapest seats high up many times on the last row sweating. Few years ago my wife bought tickets to a ballet with seats on the parquet actually close to the dance. And for the first time I saw that the dancers had expressions. The classic Swan lake was far more awesome to see the expressions of the dancers.
So you really, genuinely believe that anyone, regardless of socioeconomic status, can be the appropriate audience for a classical music piece?
If yes, what is the basis of this belief of yours?
— baker
If they genuinely like the music, why on Earth not?
So yes. Assuming the person doesn't mind the "what the hell is a person like that doing here??!!!"-looks from others and people will try to ignore you. You see, people won't be thrown out because of their socioeconomic status in any open event. A private club is a different matter.
What is really fascinating in live music is that a lot of music that you wouldn't otherwise listen to and would immediately change the channel while listening to the radio while driving, suddenly feels great when you hear it played live. And naturally the smaller more intimate the music session is, you naturally focus even more. — ssu
However good our headphones and audio systems have become, there is so much more to a live performance. It just shows there's more to music than our ear sensoring the vibration of acoustic waves.
Goodness - I think the answer to this is obvious. Kinkade, Eco and Gaga made the artistic choices they did not to subvert anything but to make money. In case you haven't noticed, the biggest market on earth is for the mediocre and the kitsch. — Tom Storm
I only need to remember my music teacher and my literature teacher from elementary school! And then some teachers from college, and the general attitude among the academics and the intelligentsia. In their view, people like me are not able to "genuinely" like the music. I mean, there are essays and other texts written on how people from lesser socio-economic classes (ie. "peasants") can have only a shallow and sentimental understanding of art. One of my college professors convinced me to never go anywhere near a theatre again or to read a book by a notable author. — baker
So your objection strikes me as rather shallow. — baker
Why? Isn't that what they want? — Raymond
It's not hard to understand - many artists do mainstream, compromised work for the money and exposure. This often annoys and frustrates because anything they might want to do with a richer imaginative vision is simply a risk and unlikely to sell. Audiences are frustrating and this often breeds contempt for the stuff which sells. — Tom Storm
Well, if you wrap yourself around old social structures, you'll find awfully many instances of how it is said that the peasants/ the rednecks/ the white trash don't appreciate the higher things in life. Or understand them. You see, to uphold a class society in things like art, culture or sport, you not only have to have those that think it's their thing, you also have to have the others who think that it's not for them, but only for those other people who they don't belong to. At worst, the thinking goes, if someone likes for example the music of "the other class", they are just trying to be someone who they aren't. Phonies.I only need to remember my music teacher and my literature teacher from elementary school! And then some teachers from college, and the general attitude among the academics and the intelligents.
In their view, people like me are not able to "genuinely" like the music. I mean, there are essays and other texts written on how people from lesser socio-economic classes (ie. "peasants") can have only a shallow and sentimental understanding of art. — baker
But yes, I never argued that across time people have not also done (and still do) good things. — Tom Storm
Who made the "defaced" painting? — Raymond
I had a Gary Oldman moment, like here, in The Professional, starting at 2.40.
— baker
Sorry, I don't get it. — Bitter Crank
Basically it comes to this: if you cannot laugh at haughty people, it's more of a problem of yours. Because those people who say they can like "genuinely" more music than others are simply very silly, haughty people. — ssu
"The peasants", like goats, need the hay put down where they can get at it, not locked up in art barns. My guess is that if you took small art shows to the local mall, staged concerts of formal music in neighborhood venues, sent acting companies on the road to small towns, etc. "the people" would be responsive audiences. This wouldn't happen over night. Someone raised on rap and nothing but won't be ready for the full court press of 'high' art. Give it time. — Bitter Crank
It's not hard to understand - many artists do mainstream, compromised work for the money and exposure. This often annoys and frustrates because anything they might want to do with a richer imaginative vision is simply a risk and unlikely to sell. Audiences are frustrating and this often breeds contempt for the stuff which sells. — Tom Storm
Classical music now mostly strikes me as pretty things that are ultimately vain and serve no wholesome purpose. — baker
like Vivaldi's Four Seasons and such. Not Stravinsky. — baker
The most they can do is "enjoy" some piece in their dark corner. They can be consumers, and nothing more. A nameless, faceless mass. — baker
Money or influence doesn't make you hear things differently.The elite have different cultural and practical predispositions than the lower class, so it only makes sense that they experience things differently. — baker
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