Against that background, is the desire to amplify the importance of Hellenization reinforce the replacement idea or under-cut it? — Paine
Yeah you aren't paying attention to what I wrote earlier about similar matters, so not going to speak much on this. I am familiar on Boyarin's ideas on this. There is also the idea of the shekinah, etc. etc. One can try to connect it, and this is very much up for debate. — schopenhauer1
Anyway, what is "traditional Judaism"? Judaism in the time of Jesus was relatively new. As shown by Silverman and Finkelstein (The Bible Unearthed), Jews had been polytheistic for most of their history. There probably had been monolatrous and even monotheistic tendencies for some time - as among the Greeks and others - but monotheism proper was relatively recent and only imposed itself after the construction of the Second Temple - which, if we think about it, is pretty late when compared with the supposition that Jews were monotheistic in the 2nd millennium BC or earlier. — Apollodorus
You insult my intelligence by quoting me stuff I already know and then latching into stuff you want to argue about. — schopenhauer1
If you want to look at Hellenistic-influenced Judaism, you should look no further than Philo of Alexandria who married the Torah with Platonic thought, and ideas of the "logos". — schopenhauer1
Olivier for one seems to find the idea "amusing". :smile: — Apollodorus
They are doing a good job of fooling me. — Paine
What would change, or what's the implication if Jesus had read Plato? — Olivier5
What is unquestionable is that the concept of divine knowledge as an enlightening force is central to Christianity as it is in Platonism where the Good, the Source of Knowledge and Truth, is compared to the Sun who illumines the world (cf. "I am the Light of the world", etc.) — Apollodorus
What he leaves out here is what he says elsewhere, that the Good is God. — Fooloso4
Actually, it is your questionable and overly simplistic interpretation of Plato — Fooloso4
So, you treat the matter as something that is common knowledge while unable to give your own testimony. In my congregation, we refer to that as cowardice. — Paine
If the good is god then this god is not the god of the Hebrew Bible. — Fooloso4
From my point of view, saying what something is against, is a testimony. You wear the garment too lightly. — Paine
the God of the Hebrew Bible is "not good" or "not God"??? — Apollodorus
(Isaiah 45:7)I form the light, and create darkness:
I make peace, and create evil:
I the Lord do all these things.
That's supposed to be my fault???
I didn't write the Hebrew Bible, did I??? — Apollodorus
But even though Apollodorus will never acknowledge the weakness and vacuity of his arguments, others can and do see them for they are. — Fooloso4
I do realize that Ehrman and his followers will never acknowledge the weakness and vacuity of their arguments, but the rest of us can and do see them for what they are. — Apollodorus
Those are examples of testimony, when people don't surrender their convictions in the face of terrible consequences. — Paine
You seem to want to make a claim upon what is Christian or not but cannot say what it is for yourself. — Paine
Of course I can say what a Christian is for myself — Apollodorus
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