Well, I thought that comment of Isaac's was fair, and not unprovoked, but what do I know? — jamalrob
What the Russian rulers care about is power in the region and on the world stage, and they use force to establish it — jamalrob
There isn't a Neoliberal Mastermind somewhere telling the US government what to do. — frank
The fantasy that the US is responsible for everything on earth — Olivier5
What citation? I'm not writing to publish an essay here.
— Christoffer
The citations you should have provided to back up claims like
this is all Putin
— Christoffer
...especially if you're then going to go on to repeat over and over things like...
You still don't know what is going on right now.
— Christoffer
I've been refreshing my own knowledge of everything related to all of this and through this conflict, I have two-three news outlets going simultaneously while deep diving and researching any development that happens.
— Christoffer
Right. So it shouldn't be the least trouble to provide one of these sources concluding that
this is all Putin
— Christoffer
I could ask of you the same, where are your sources for the conclusions you make?
— Christoffer — Isaac
https://jacobinmag.com/2022/02/maidan-protests-neo-nazis-russia-nato-crimea
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/30/russia-ukraine-war-kiev-conflict
https://jacobinmag.com/2022/02/the-left-vladimir-putin-russia-war-ukraine
https://www.dsausa.org/statements/on-russias-invasion-of-ukraine/
https://www.mearsheimer.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Why-the-Ukraine-Crisis-Is.pdf — Isaac
My sources for claims about far-right activism and US support for it back in 2014 are here https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/659557 and here https://thephilosophyforum.com/discussion/comment/659771 — Isaac
A number of complex interrelated factors, one of which is US foreign policy, one of which is EU central banking, one of which is arms industry lobbying, one of which is the influence of multinational financial instruments... — Isaac
As long as your media outlets are independent trustworthy sources, you can listen to a lot of eastern political scientists confirm exactly what I'm talking about here.
— Christoffer
No I can't because you haven't cited any. A search for "a lot of eastern political scientists" on Google remained frustratingly unspecific I'm afraid. — Isaac
Why must it be " ...not Putin"? Can you really not even conceive of more than one factor? — Isaac
Meanwhile, the country was led by Yeltsin, an irascible drunkard in fragile health. The situation was desperate, but Putin had a plan.
"I cannot cover all the tasks facing the government in this speech. But I do know one thing for sure: not one of those tasks can be performed without imposing basic order and discipline in this country, without strengthening the vertical chain," he told the assembled parliamentarians."
He spoke the language of a man who yearned for the lost certainties, who longed for a time when Moscow was to be reckoned with. He did not say it explicitly, but he was clearly stung by Russia's failure to stop Nato driving the forces of its ally, Serbia, out of Kosovo just months previously.
His domestic policy was to restore stability, to end what he called the "revolutions", that had brought Russia low. His foreign policy was to regain Russia's place in world affairs.
Those two core aims have driven everything he has done since. If only people had been listening, none of his actions would have come as a surprise to them.
"I think it became absolutely clear when Khodorkovsky was arrested, that Putin was not going after the oligarchs to reassert the power of democratic civil society over these titans. He was doing it as part of building an authoritarian regime,"
"Putin has really painted himself into a corner by destroying every independent source of power in Russia. He now has only the bureaucracy to rely on, and must keep increasing its funding to keep ensuring its loyalty," says Ben Judah, the British author of Fragile Empire, a study of Putin's Russia.
Putin has succeeded in building a version of the country of his childhood, one that can act independently in the world, and one where dissent is controlled and the Kremlin's power unchallenged. But that is a double-edged sword, because the Soviet Union collapsed for a reason, and a Russia recreated in its image risks sharing its fate.
And you've still not answered my very simple question.
What is the advantage of exculpating the US and Europe? Even if they're completely innocent (which has yet to be shown), what is gained by so passionately ensuring their innocence is made clear to all? They're all big boys, they can handle a bit of misapportioned culpability, so why the fervour? — Isaac
You don't need a neoliberal mastermind when a generalized profit imperative - we call it capitalism - will do. — StreetlightX
That's the difference between idiot psychologizers who think politics functions like Harry Potter, and an understanding of state power in service of a dominant class structure. — StreetlightX
You can equivocate between a literal single person and globally spanning empire with mutiple, recorded genocides on its hands if you like, but let's be clear that the equivocation is yours and yours alone. — StreetlightX
If you're saying capitalism=neoliberalism, then we aren't talking about the same thing. — frank
They need to be a Sauron-like It to serve your purposes. — frank
What are calling genocide? — frank
Just about any US foreign intervention will do. In any case, off topic. — StreetlightX
Just about any US foreign intervention will do. — StreetlightX
In 1948, the United Nations Genocide Convention defined genocide as any of five "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such." These five acts were: killing members of the group, causing them serious bodily or mental harm, imposing living conditions intended to destroy the group, preventing births, and forcibly transferring children out of the group. Victims are targeted because of their real or perceived membership of a group, not randomly.
I think you mean Soviet citizens, many of whom died in the famine in Ukraine. I don’t think there’s a consensus on whether that was genocide. — jamalrob
You keep saying this but I don't get it. As long as their naval base is secure what else would they want with a practically closed sea? — magritte
I don’t think there’s a consensus on whether that was genocide. — jamalrob
Democide is a concept proposed by American political scientist Rudolph Rummel to describe "the intentional killing of an unarmed or disarmed person by government agents acting in their authoritative capacity and pursuant to government policy or high command."
it's not in the spirit of 'one family' that world religions or humanists for that matter talk about. — FreeEmotion
This is why I'm saying that the best solution would be for each continent to be free and independent. But perhaps I'm being too idealistic. — Apollodorus
This in addition to the fact that Crimea has never been Ukrainian. — Apollodorus
The security threat to Russia is illustrated by Turkey, a NATO member, closing the straits to war ships. — Apollodorus
Currently, Turkey has lukewarm relations with Russia. A more hostile Turkey ganging up with other NATO states against Russia would be a major security threat to Russia. — Apollodorus
Russia does not threaten the West in the same way the West threatens Russia. It hasn't got military bases next door to England, France, or America. — Apollodorus
Of course the world should be 'one family'. The question is who should be the 'head' of that family. Not everyone wants to see America (or Wall Street) in that role. — Apollodorus
This is why I'm saying that the best solution would be for each continent to be free and independent. But perhaps I'm being too idealistic. — Apollodorus
I want to have a simple answer from you:
How does NATO expand? In practice, how does it expand? Are they forcing themselves into nations or are nations joining them?
And why are they joining NATO or want to join NATO? — Christoffer
This is what the Catalonia Parliament has been voting for, to be set apart from Spain. But that didn't happen. — Christoffer
How does NATO expand? Consider yourself facing a football team of 12 players. Upon invitation 18 more join the opposing team. Do you feel threatened? And this is after the game (cold war ) has ended. — FreeEmotion
If nations are joining them freely, then why did not Ukraine join them and put a stop to Putin's ambitions?
That was the purpose of NATO after all, to check Russian ambitions. — FreeEmotion
As of February 25, 2022, countries – Bosnia and Herzegovina, Georgia, and Ukraine – are considered “aspiring members.”
This status is afforded to non-member nations that have “made significant contributions to Nato-led operations and missions," such as Australia and Sweden.
However, continued Ukrainian instability – including its proximity to war-hungry Russia – makes it unlikely that their request to join the organisation will be accepted any time soon.
Do you deny that America and Russia are adversaries with one attempting to get the better of the other? — FreeEmotion
Why do they want to join NATO after the cold war ended? Same reason people join gangs, collective power for coercion on the international scene I would think. — FreeEmotion
Those fools only vote for their own selfishness. Trust me, the conflict between Russia and Ukraine are far away from Spain-Catalonia context. My country has always been so soft towards Catalonia — javi2541997
By this logic, all of Norway should just call themselves Swedes. — Christoffer
they should have had a vote in order to pass something that was supported by the people. The problem is that Russia annexed Crimea, then offered voting choices that didn't reflect this kind of process, — Christoffer
all you have as a foundation for that is a grave misunderstanding of how NATO works. — Christoffer
Ever since I can remember, Slavic people have been put down by the West. In every international setting I have been, there was a palpable contempt for us. Online, as soon as people hear where I'm from, if they are Westerners, then 9 out of 10 times, they automatically adopt a negative, patronizing, bad-faithed attitude toward me. Like I'm automatically a second-class person because I'm from a Slavic nation.
This Western contempt and bad faith toward the Slavic people is so consistent and so grave that there is even a trend for Slavic people to despise themselves because of their national roots, to deny them, to reinvent the past (like some who say that we're not really Slavic, but an offshoot from the Italian group), and many adopt a Western identity.
The way many Western people have been talking about Putin is actually "just business as usual". There is an anti-Slavic nationalism that has become so deeply ingrained in Western culture, so normalized that most people don't even see it. — baker
I hope people stop seeing this conflict as good vs bad. If anything, both sides are at fault for not reaching a compromise through dialogue/diplomacy — Eskander
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