Praying and Wishing are Wireless Communications

L'éléphant

I have been thinking about the way people use praying and wishing as a way to communicate as strongly as other means, such as calling by phone, writing an email message, texting, and person to person talk. It fascinates me that people, both religious and non-religious, communicate their desires and wishes, especially the most important issues they face in their moments of grief, sadness, happiness, and fear to another person by way of sending their thoughts in the air over long distances in hopes that the thoughts would reach the other person. Just like a voice on the phone would reach your ear, or an email message would appear in your inbox.

What’s even more fascinating is that multiple-language people use the language the intended person speaks to send the wish or prayer. So, they pray in English if the intended person is an English speaker, or French, if the person speaks French. Does it really matter if I prayed in German while sending my thoughts over to a friend who speaks English? Do my thoughts travel in the air in German or English?

I remember a neighbor’s parents who would utter a prayer to send with him through his flight. This prayer would accompany him during his travel on a plane. And when he landed safely at his destination, the parents were happy that the prayer made it safe. I will not argue against it. The point is, the prayer was as effective as a phone call to them.

People calling for emergency would pray when all other communications fail. Dead phone, no internet connection, no signal? There’s praying and wishing. I know because I’ve done it. I had sent a “be strong” thought-message to someone who was having a difficult time, and living thousands of miles away from me.

Average

I like the premise of this discussion.

L'éléphant

↪Average

Please share your idea.

Average

↪L'éléphant

it’s possible the prayer is a kind of therapeutic process.

Deleted User

↪Average

Yes, I'd say you're right. It's beneficial in the sense that it actually formalizes what you desire in a way that it's something you would ask a deity to either aid you in achieving, or provide for you. Like, it's that important to you. You don't go around praying about unicorns after all, you pray about what really matters to you. It orients your focus on what's really occupying your mind and why. Writing journals is very similar, but lacks the emotional reinforcement something like that has. Unless you're a freak like me who writes single-spaced essays for fun. If one prays about something and it happens, your whole body is blown away by that apparent contradiction of reality which can be uplifting in a way that isn't comparable to other experiences. It's like getting direct confirmation that something out there has your back.

Hanover

↪L'éléphant

Reminds me of this:

"This is the doctrine of bitachon, or trust in G‑d, which the chassidic master Rabbi Menachem Mendel of Lubavitch (1789–1866) distilled as the Yiddish adage, Tracht gut, vet zein gut—'Think good, and it will be good.'

What this means, says the Lubavitcher Rebbe, is that bitachon, the absolute assurance and conviction that G‑d will make things good, actually becomes the conduit and vessel which draw down and receive G‑d’s blessings. Positive thinking is not just a way to weather negative occurrences, but actually makes positive results happen."

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/2492/jewish/Good-Thinking.htm

I don't buy into these things literally of course, but I do have this instinct of refusing to say or think bad thoughts for fear that I'll think them into existence. It derives from the idea that God spoke creation into existence ("And God said, Let there be light: and there was light."). This goes well beyond as @Average suggests because it references a mystical event, as in when divine creatures of God think something or say something, they change the course of the universe.

Like many religious ideas, the far-fetchedness makes it hard to fully accept, but I do like the idea of the power it provides to each of us to change the world and the responsibility it imposes upon each of us to say and do as we'd like the world to be. I also like the paradoxical construct of this system, because it is through the power of prayer that one obtains power over the universe, as opposed to the idea that we're down on our knees begging for external assitance.

Be strong!

Do you feel the strength now within you?

L'éléphant

it’s possible the prayer is a kind of therapeutic process. — Average

It is, right? When visiting a person who is ill, people leave words of encouragement and well wishes. Even those who do not believe in prayers.

I don't buy into these things literally of course, but I do have this instinct of refusing to say or think bad thoughts for fear that I'll think them into existence. — Hanover

Good read from the link. Thanks.

Same here. This thing is very strong and I doubt there's one individual out there who do not have some sort of thought-positive and negative-thought avoidance practice in them.

Be strong!

Do you feel the strength now within you? — Hanover

Yes, just reading those words make me feel it. I literally sent that thought to someone living abroad at the time when I couldn't reach him. And I felt at the time that the stronger you will it, the stronger it would get to the person.

L'éléphant

You don't go around praying about unicorns after all, you pray about what really matters to you. — Garrett Travers

Yes! People actually pray for facts, for the actual reality. That's why I put this in epistemology because we treat our own prayers and wishes as part of our knowledge about the world.

Deleted User

Yes! People actually pray for facts, for the actual reality. That's why I put this in epistemology because in our prayers and wishes we treat them like a part of justified true beliefs. — L'éléphant

Yes. It's like a cognitive reflection that goes through a multisensory process, it's very peculiar. It's like being honest with oneself in a manner that is spoken, or at least formulated in thought. It tightens ones coherence on their values.

L'éléphant

↪Garrett Travers

I agree. I think it's one of the most honest conversations with yourself.
lol. I know someone who reserves best wishes for people she likes. But don't we all do that? And what about the expression "I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy".

Deleted User

And what about the expression "I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy". — L'éléphant

Well, I have bounced back and forth on that one, hehah

L'éléphant

↪Garrett Travers

Yes, I know the feeling.

Agent Smith

↪Hanover

You might find this interesting: Law of Attraction.

It basically states that positive thoughts lead to good experiences and negative thoughts lead to bad ones.

L'éléphant

↪Agent Smith

Thanks! I posted a passage here from that link.

In the New Thought spiritual movement, the Law of Attraction is a pseudoscience based on the belief that positive or negative thoughts bring positive or negative experiences into a person's life.[1][2] The belief is based on the ideas that people and their thoughts are made from "pure energy" and that a process of like energy attracting like energy exists through which a person can improve their health, wealth, and personal relationships. There is no empirical scientific evidence supporting the law of attraction, and it is widely considered to be pseudoscience.

This is the gist.

The pure energy is what we give off when we have those thoughts. When sending good wishes to people, we're counting on that pure energy to travel through space and reach those people. As crazy as it is.

Agent Smith

↪L'éléphant

So, you don't believe that the law of attraction holds? I agree. Imagine it were that simple to find happiness.

As for the OP, a novel take on prayer and wishing wells. :up:

L'éléphant

↪L'éléphant
So, you don't believe that the law of attraction holds? I agree. Imagine it were that simple to find happiness. — Agent Smith

I freakin' do! :starstruck:

Did I not make that clear in my post? I find the law of attraction very believable, but we just don't have scientific backing for it.

As for the OP, a novel take on prayer and wishing wells. :up: — Agent Smith

Thanks.

L'éléphant

Speaking of which, I actually had a dream of Hanover. :gasp:

There was a knock on my door and there's freakin' Hanover. First thing I uttered was "WTF!"

Agent Smith

Did I not make that clear in my post? I find the law of attraction very believable, but we just don't have scientific backing for it. — L'éléphant

You're in for boatloads of disappointment! It's probably because my experiences are very unique, not quite the same as yours I'm afraid. Rose-tinted glasses vs. sunglasses? The former just-for-fun, the latter to protect your eyes from the dazzle effect of sunlight. I tried and failed, maybe you'll have better luck! Bon voyage señor/señorita.

L'éléphant

↪Agent Smith

Actually I think you're right.

Agent Smith

Actually I think you're right. — L'éléphant

Somehow that breaks my heart. Good day.

L'éléphant

Somehow that breaks my heart. Good day. — Agent Smith

Okay, I think you're wrong. Don't walk away with a broken heart.
I believe in the law of attraction.

Agent Smith

Somehow that breaks my heart. Good day.
— Agent Smith
Okay, I think you're wrong. Don't walk away with a broken heart.
I believe in the law of attraction. — L'éléphant

:lol: That's how cruel the universe is: it tears apart our delicate souls. Let us hope our children fare better than us. We're working in total darkness here; mishaps are bound to occur.

L'éléphant

That's how cruel the universe is: it tears apart our delicate souls. — Agent Smith

I can assure you that the universe has no meaning or emotion.

Hanover

I can assure you that the universe has no meaning or emotion. — L'éléphant

No you can't. You can choose to believe there is no meaning and you can live your life that way. Or, you can choose to believe every thing is where it is for some purpose and live your life that way.

Give me a reason for choice A, not just an assurance you know A is correct.

L'éléphant

Or, you can choose to believe every thing is where it is for some purpose and live your life that way. — Hanover

Humans give meaning to the universe. We assigned emotions to things.
Are you saying that the most basic unit of physical existence coming together to form the moon and the stars, did so for some purpose that has nothing to do with humans? Or do we interprete the existence of objects as we perceive them?

(Oh, and by saying this, did I just switch my thinking to subjectivity?)

Because to say there is meaning to the world, the universe, means that there is objective reality. Oh yeah, I noticed that the two notions -- meaning and objective reality -- haven't been put together in an OP in this forum. There are OPs that talk about objective reality, and then OPs that talk about meaning. But never together -- or could you point me to those OPs?

I think it's time we explore the connection of those notions. :)

I like sushi

Articulating one’s feelings and thoughts through spoken/written language is very helpful. Anyone who has had to give a lecture or write an essay will understand how actually articulating ideas and feelings helps to refine them.

If I have a big problem I write an essay about how to solve the problem. Doing so brings to light many ideas and feelings that were hidden below the surface and either solves or eases the issue a great deal.

Thinking is very hard. Articulating the problem explicitly allows one to contend with it more readily. Pleas and prayers are the first step to facing the problem head on and bringing the power of rationality to the fore. Meaning, when we feel a situation is hopeless often we just need to break it down into smaller problems and attend to the one/s that are easiest to articulate.

For example: If you have an existential crisis and want to die, then write an essay titled “Why do I want to die?” Then you can just write freeform and get to the crux of the issue whilst offering counter arguments and balancing out reasons for and against.

L'éléphant

Thinking is very hard. Articulating the problem explicitly allows one to contend with it more readily. Pleas and prayers are the first step to facing the problem head on and bringing the power of rationality to the fore. Meaning, when we feel a situation is hopeless often we just need to break it down into smaller problems and attend to the one/s that are easiest to articulate. — I like sushi

Oh big time!
I forgot about this -- writing down your thoughts on paper.

Agent Smith

Be strong!

Do you feel the strength now within you? — Hanover

No! :grin:

L'éléphant

↪Agent Smith

You lack faith, that's why.

In my case, I wasn't even feeling religious when I uttered that for a friend. I did that out of frustration. I couldn't reach the dude. And he was living on the 24th floor. In another country. So what to do? Send the message "Be strong!" through the air, par avion.

And hoped that it reached him. (That has nothing to do with anything, but just being human).

Agent Smith

↪L'éléphant

Yeah, yeah!

Jack Cummins

↪Agent Smith

I was reading this thread and noticed you refer to the law of attraction. I think that I have referred to it a couple times on the forum. However, I have never come across anyone else referring to it. I think that it does exist like a magnetic energy force and it does even relate to the idea of prayer and how 'mind' may exist at the level of causation. However, it is likely that many do find it hard to believe in, probably because it has a basis in esoteric thought and goes against the perspective of scientific materialism.

Praying and Wishing are Wireless Communications

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