The only way to parse the word belief is by a definition of truth... — Shwah

I've nothing further until you offer the definitions I asked for. It's a waste of time otherwise.

No worries. Be well. Best wishes.

I already provided the definitions here of belief, true and truth all from google and defined a relationship narrative which would exclude equivalency and allow asymmetricity to support my original statement about belief being derived from truth.

I see definitions of "belief" and "true". There is not one yet of "truth".

It's here
Truth is literally rooted in the word true.

Edit: one needs a definition of true to parse truth or belief.

but those who take quantum mechanics as fodder for deep-seated beliefs in non physical entities do not understand quantum mechanics or particle physics anyway. — creativesoul

Where do you base this on? Who says they dont understand anyway. As if You understand it. Dont think so.

Hitler is a fine example of what can happen when people doing wrong to one another is found as permissible/acceptable; killing is believed to be justified for reasons of the greater good; an entire swathe of a population finds themselves in dire straits; and a cult of personality convinces enough of those people that some others are to blame and are somehow inherently evil and the world would be better off without them.

I'm reminded of the song "Cult of Personality" by Living Colour.

The Republican Party has successfully convinced many Americans that other Americans(namely "liberals") are to blame for everything from high gas prices to their own feeling guilty about how some Americans have been treated throughout American history.

:joke:

Make no mistake. I do not understand the mathematics. I've read extensively regarding the three most common interpretations.

If you have an example of a quantum physicist or a theoretical scientist that believes in prayers based upon quantum mechanics, non-locality, quantum entanglement, or the current standard model of particle physics, then be my guest to talk about them if they use their knowledge of quantum mechanics to support the belief in prayer.

From my experience, those who do so are lay persons who do not understand that quantum mechanics is math.

inherently evil — creativesoul

Life's simpler that way. If we dive into minutiae, our heads might explode from the sheer volume of data that needs processing. Very mathematical in spirit, but looks like there's a time and place for everything.

Truth is literally rooted in the word true.

Edit: one needs a definition of true to parse truth or belief. — Shwah

You just linked me back to your own assertion that the term "truth" is rooted in the term "true". You've still not defined the term "truth".

I also disagree with that assertion, but that disagreement may be the result of mutually exclusive notions(definitions) of "truth, "true", and "belief" being at work.

From the wiktionary: https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/truth



You are using an aberrant definition and so all this work and effort should be on you. There is no definition which says anything other than truth being the root word true with a -th suffix and no definition of belief parsable without truth. Belief is a (personal) proposition which necessitates truth and falsity.

If you have no interest in talking about it then don't message me. There's absolutely no reason to be disingenuous and uncharitable.

You don't have any interest in being charitable and not being disingenuous so I have no interest in talking to you.

From my experience, those who do so are lay persons who do not understand that quantum mechanics is math. — creativesoul

That's exactly my point. It's not math but what the math describes. Hidden variables are one possibility. And exactly these can be used for those in prayer.

The truth is true. But what is it? One god, many gods? If one person can do it, so can the collective of universal life.

My apologies. I didn't realize that that was a definition of "truth". In my defense, the format wasn't familiar. Usually people write the term followed by the definition. I'll have to return to this later...

There's a fine line between reading charitably and misattributing meaning to another's language use. I tend to try hard to avoid the latter.

The thing with gods: they render every scientific explanation of the cosmos, the reason of life, or the explanation of consciousness, non-valid or irrelevant at least. The theology of the gods can be called upon even in the construction of cosmological models, the fundamental structure of matter and space, the explanation of consciousness, the theory of evolution, or the interpretation of quantum mechanics or QFT.

...I assume belief is derived from truth...

Truth
the quality or state of being true

Belief
an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.

True
in accordance with fact or reality. — Shwah

By means of substitution...

I assume an acceptance that a statement is true is derived from the quality or state of being in accordance with fact or reality.

Do you agree with the above rendering of what you said at the top, because the above is what happens when we substitute the definitions for the terms "belief", "truth", and "true". The translation does not make sense. Given that the definitions you've provided were used, I have to reject your use of those terms.

Edit: recursively the definition of belief becomes, "an acceptance that a statement is in accordance with reality". — Shwah

Either there are no such things as language less or pre linguistic or non linguistic belief or that definition is found lacking in it's explanatory power. It cannot take proper account of language less(non linguistic) belief.

This topic needs it's own thread.

I have no interest in conversing with you.

There is no definition which says anything other than truth being the root word true with a -th suffix... — Shwah

That's not true at all.

truth noun
\ ˈtrüth \
plural truths\ ˈtrüt͟hz , ˈtrüths \
Definition of truth
1a(1): the body of real things, events, and facts : ACTUALITY
(2): the state of being the case : FACT
(3)often capitalized : a transcendent fundamental or spiritual reality
b: a judgment, proposition, or idea that is true or accepted as true
truths of thermodynamics
c: the body of true statements and propositions
2a: the property (as of a statement) of being in accord with fact or reality
bchiefly British : TRUE sense 2
c: fidelity to an original or to a standard
3a: sincerity in action, character, and utterance
barchaic : FIDELITY, CONSTANCY
4capitalized, Christian Science : GOD
in truth
: in accordance with fact : ACTUALLY

Be well.

You are using an aberrant definition — Shwah

That's not true either.

Truth is literally rooted in the word true. — Shwah

No it is not. That would make truth rooted in language use.

If truth is rooted in language use then either there are no such things as language less true belief or language less true belief does not require truth. Language less belief certainly cannot be rooted in language. The word "true" most certainly is.

Please stop replying to me.

I'm offering a much needed dissenting opinion regarding the utmost important topic. You do not have to read it. It's not like you're being forced against your own will, as if you're all tied up with toothpicks propping your eyelids open.

It also happens to be a response. I'm entitled. I've no ill will against you personally.

I'll leave your avatar name and link out of any future quotes from you. That's the best I can do.

:flower:

You're not entitled to harass me when I asked you to stop replying to me. I get emails specifically saying you replied. Please desist.