I'm just trying to get you to look at this from the other perspective. From the perspective of someone who disagrees with...
mainstream in Sweden focuses much harder on facts from people who worked with analyzing all of this for many many years.
— Christoffer
...or disagrees with...
made my argument based on somewhat of a consensus in the matter.
— Christoffer — Isaac
These are, again, not just facts of the world, they are opinions of yours and other people disagree with them. — Isaac
If you think your arguments are soundly based on unbiased consensus, then of course you're going to find opposition to them incoherent (or at least not understand the vitriol), but for those who disagree with that assessment, we might be offended your lack of effort, your lazy preference for the easiest narrative. — Isaac
Your arguments have you and your country come out completely blameless and leave absolutely no obligation on you to do anything. They look just too convenient to someone unconvinced as to the unbiased authority of your sources. — Isaac
Not much in the habit of writing post that aren't responses to anything — Isaac
So you disagree with media in Sweden being much more factual and unbiased than in many other nations. — Christoffer
Care to back up that disagreement with anything? — Christoffer
And you disagree with someone using the consensus of researchers in the matter as most of the sources to form their argument? — Christoffer
Why would your sources of information that form your conclusions be of any more factual value than mine? — Christoffer
Your opinion is valued even lower if you only have a handful of ideological bloggers and individuals that you agree with in the first place. — Christoffer
You don't counter-argue, you resort to cherry-picking easily countered points pulled out of context, — Christoffer
You make no effort to evaluate the actual logic or rationale of the others' argument, you just compare it to your emotional opinion on the matter and if it doesn't fit, then the other person is a stupid, indoctrinated puppet. — Christoffer
And when you get an argument with lots of actual sources you bail out, as you did with the "education" discussion. — Christoffer
you persist to spam your unfounded emotional responses to everything said by anyone that has another conclusion than you. — Christoffer
that's all that you do, react, mock and fight anything that isn't fitting within your narrative. — Christoffer
... media in Sweden being much more factual and unbiased than in many other nations. — Christoffer
I post this stuff because I naively think it can be useful. — Olivier5
Because I read the French press, and they don't. — Olivier5
Yes, as a statement of fact, I do. — Isaac
I have absolutely no reason to believe you. It just sounds like "Oh and my sources are the best, if you don't agree, you disprove it". I don't agree (by default) because it's a very convenient position for your argument. — Isaac
I disagree with the claim that a consensus of experts i more likely to be right that an single, or small group of experts. Qualification and error checking are the factor which make an expert opinion more likely to be right. — Isaac
There's absolutely nothing about a consensus to say they have greater qualification (in fact they will on average have less), — Isaac
(again, I think marginally they will have done less than some) — Isaac
The expert most likely to right is the one who has the greatest knowledge and has carried out the most thorough error checking. That, by definition, will not be the mass around the mean, but rather one of the extremes. — Isaac
My conclusions are not more factual than yours. I don't know how many times I can say this in different ways that you might understand. — Isaac
I choose evidence which supports my preferred narrative. The narrative comes first, the evidence second. — Isaac
The difference between me and you here is that you're still labouring under the delusion that you don't. — Isaac
That you somehow start every investigation with a blank slate, unbiasedly selecting your sources, interpreting their conclusions according to some disinterested algorithm, and then just happening, by chance to come up with answers which exactly support your pre-existing political ideals. — Isaac
You, like every other human in the planet, interpret a complex soup of almost infinite data in ways which confirm your pre-existing biases until such time as those narrative become completely unsustainable in the face of evidence to the contrary. You're hard-wired to do this, it's literally how your brain works, from perception, through emotion, right up to grand world-philosophies. — Isaac
Again, this is just your opinion. — Isaac
The people I've cited are all experts in their field. That you personally find them to be 'ideological' is your conclusion. — Isaac
Again, whether the points I counter are 'cherry-picked' and 'out of context' are both subjective judgements, I would obviously disagree with that assessment. — Isaac
A recurring problem here is that you cannot seem to understand you things which seem 'logical' to you are not that way to others. It's not as if you're arguing that 2+2=4, these are complex issues. — Isaac
I'm simply not going to engage in a full blooded discussion about education in a thread about Ukraine. — Isaac
The point of it was to see how far you'd take an argument. — Isaac
I was intrigued as to why you didn't just assume I was lying about being a psychology professor (seemingly the easiest option for your argument) but instead assumed that you (presumably unqualified in the field) could 'outargue' someone holding a professorship by looking up a few things on Google. That position simply peaked my interest so I wanted to see how far it went. If you want to start a thread about education I'd be more than happy to contribute, though I'd expect a bit more than a hastily thrown together collection of papers. My views on the matter are not mainstream though. — Isaac
Yep. This is a public forum, not your private blog. — Isaac
Yes, that's a fair summary (the vast majority of the time). If I want to learn, I'll read a book. If I want to discuss with experts, I'll track some down (though I grant my personal situation makes this much easier for me than others, I'm not criticising other people in this). — Isaac
I have a very specific interest in this place - seeing how people react to having their views challenged, particularly on view I have strong opinions about (it reveals interesting things about my own psyche too, not that I'm going to share any of them publicly). Unless such a form of interaction is against the rules, I'll carry on. — Isaac
the better the consensus is because all that error checking and reviewing goes through a larger set of data. So, they all work through an analysis of the information they have access to in order to reach a conclusion with high probability, which can vary based on the information. So the more experts there are, the higher the probability of reaching a truthful conclusion. — Christoffer
So the role you play is determining what's interesting? — Isaac
Something like this, for instance. — Olivier5
You have 49.25% of this article left to read. The rest is for subscribers only.
"the last 10 years things have started to change for the better" — Christoffer
I think the worst affected areas will be the Sahel. — ssu
Finally, and most importantly, it's not matter of how pure their blood is, but who are the indigenous inhabitants of Crimea. Not the Russians! But the Crimean Tatars. So they should be the right owners according to your views! — neomac
Medieval Muslim writers noted that Tibetans and Turks resembled each other, and that they often were not able to tell the difference between Turks and Tibetans. On Western Turkic coins "the faces of the governor and governess are clearly mongoloid (a roundish face, narrow eyes), and the portraits have definite old Türk features. Turkic peoples - Wikipedia
Turkic-speaking peoples sampled across the Middle East, Caucasus, East Europe, and Central Asia share varying proportions of Asian ancestry that originate in a single area, southern Siberia and Mongolia. Mongolic- and Turkic-speaking populations from this area bear an unusually high number of long chromosomal tracts that are identical by descent with Turkic peoples from across west Eurasia. Admixture induced linkage disequilibrium decay across chromosomes in these populations indicates that admixture occurred during the 9th–17th centuries, in agreement with the historically recorded Turkic nomadic migrations and later Mongol expansion. Thus, our findings reveal genetic traces of recent large-scale nomadic migrations and map their source to a previously hypothesized area of Mongolia and southern Siberia.
Genetic evidence points to an origin in the region near South Siberia and Mongolia as the "Inner Asian Homeland" of the Turkic ethnicity
The Tatars (/ˈtɑːtərz/; Tatar: татарлар, tatarlar, تاتارلر, Crimean Tatar: tatarlar; Old Turkic: , romanized: Tatar) is an umbrella term for different Turkic ethnic groups bearing the name "Tatar".
Tatar became a name for populations of the former Golden Horde in Europe, such as those of the former Kazan, Crimean, Astrakhan, Qasim and Siberian Khanates.
All Turkic peoples living within the Russian Empire were named Tatar (as a Russian exonym). Some of these populations still use Tatar as a self-designation:
Kipchak groups
Kipchak–Cuman branch
Crimean Tatars …. - Wikipedia
The Crimeans frequently mounted raids into the Danubian principalities, Poland–Lithuania, and Muscovy to enslave people whom they could capture; for each captive, the khan received a fixed share (savğa) of 10% or 20%. These campaigns by Crimean forces were either sefers ("sojourns"), officially declared military operations led by the khans themselves, or çapuls ("despoiling"), raids undertaken by groups of noblemen, sometimes illegally because they contravened treaties concluded by the khans with neighbouring rulers.
For a long time, until the early 18th century, the [Crimean] khanate maintained a massive slave trade with the Ottoman Empire and the Middle East, exporting about 2 million slaves from Russia and Poland–Lithuania over the period 1500–1700. In 1769, a last major Tatar raid resulted in the capture of 20,000 Russian and Ruthenian slaves. – Wikipedia
When the old, peaceable Slav spirit was fired with warlike flame, the Cossack state was instituted. In place of the original provinces with their petty towns, in place of the warring and bartering petty princes ruling in their cities, there arose great colonies, villages, and districts, bound together by one common danger and hatred against the heathen robbers. The story is well known how their incessant warfare and restless existence saved Europe from the merciless hordes which threatened to overwhelm her … – Gogol, Taras Bulba
No, I'm just calling out your bullshit thinking you know even surface-level stuff of what is going on in Sweden and Finland. — Christoffer
Russia didn't intervene or come to the help of Armenia when Azerbaijan attacked in the Nagorno-Karabach. It actually had sold weapons to Azerbaijan. And is all but happy using the divide and rule tactics in the Caucasus. — ssu
The Azerbaijanis, Azerbaijani Turks, or Azeris are Turkic people living mainly in the Republic of Azerbaijan and Iranian Azerbaijan, as well as in Georgia, Russia (Dagestan), Turkey and formerly Armenia.
A massive migration of Oghuz Turks in the 11th and 12th centuries gradually Turkified Azerbaijan as well as Anatolia.
At the beginning of the 11th century, the territory was gradually seized by the waves of Oghuz Turks from Central Asia, who adopted a Turkoman ethnonym at the time. The first of these Turkic dynasties established was the Seljuk Empire, which entered the area now known as Azerbaijan by 1067.
The pre-Turkic population that lived on the territory of modern Azerbaijan spoke several Indo-European and Caucasian languages, among them Armenian and an Iranian language, Old Azeri, which was gradually replaced by a Turkic language, the early precursor of the Azerbaijani language of today. – Azerbaijani people, Azerbaijan, Wikipedia.
Experts see Turkey’s hardline rhetoric against Armenia as part of Turkey’s aspirations for global and regional leadership and Ankara's increasing efforts to resolve disputes through “gunboat diplomacy.”
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