I don't bastardize scripture, I interpret it quite fairly. — VagabondSpectre
It awakened a sense of thankfulness for not being governed by people who are willing to carry out abhorrent, wasteful, and violent actions (as depicted in the bible) in the name of god-love. — VagabondSpectre
And these aren't my beliefs I'm injecting, they're Christian beliefs: — VagabondSpectre
In the old testament forgiveness was purchased through the blood of sacrificial animals. In the new testament forgiveness was purchased through the blood of Jesus. God explicitly requires blood (death/suffering) in order to forgive.... — VagabondSpectre
The ritualized nature of this in Christianity resembles pagan blood magic. — VagabondSpectre
The tale of the binding of Isaac disgusts me: "God says to sacrifice my son... GREAT IDEA GOD! And oh! God gave me a lamb at the last possible second to sacrifice instead! WHAT INFINITE WISDOM!!!". — VagabondSpectre
I've read the bible cover to cover and it didn't awaken my conscience through love. — VagabondSpectre
So tell me exactly how it is that morality leads to religion? — VagabondSpectre
I refuse to submit to religiously inspired love because if I do that then I'm at the mercy of all the ridiculous baggage that tends to come included in any actual religion. I love myself and my family well enough without religion, and I somewhat have love for humanity, and that's enough. I don't need what religion offers, so why should I bother? — VagabondSpectre
Geez, that's fair. :-| — TimeLine
So Christians believe in the smurfs? It was you who said... God is Gargamel and we're the surfs, right? You must be proud of your countries' education system. — TimeLine
No, people want to see blood, not God. It seems that reconciliation with their conscience is only satisfied when they see death or violence of an innocent person since the injustice is shocking enough to make one conscious of the love for someone they have outside of themselves. Humans are not only innately evil but profoundly moronic and those pagan rituals they did were never warranted or requested, they were just transferred, a way of saying 'don't do such rituals to false idols but if you are stupid enough to do it, at least do it to the one true God'. You seem to be having trouble reading between the lines, probably because you have little historical knowledge; many Catholic traditions are extensions of Roman paganism, for instance. — TimeLine
Christianity? Do you realise how many different religions fall under this umbrella? I mean, hasty generalisations are one thing, but to do it with such confidence is downright spooky. — TimeLine
Calm down. *sigh, clearly things need to be spoon-fed to you. It is a story that has a point, the point being faith. Isaac wasn't actually murdered and he became a 'great people' as Abraham became the father of the monotheistic religions; individuals often represent broader subjects, a person represents a city or a country but clearly since you lack the wisdom, having this conversation with you is fast becoming tedious. — TimeLine
If the story of Isaac escaped you, I highly doubt you actually read it 'cover to cover' but to be fair, you probably did read the cover, as in, just the one word before screaming off naked into the wilderness saying 'this is wrong!' — TimeLine
Go read Kant and then we'll talk. — TimeLine
Since when is reading the scriptures following a religion? No one is asking you to follow a religion. I read the Qur'an, but I'm not a muslim. Morality comes first, but you will never reach moral consciousness without rational autonomy and the elimination of anything prejudicial including the cultural or social influences that render your interpretations flawed. You need to see the wisdom as a way of accessing and improving your moral consciousness by making it your active duty to improve yourself and not as a duty to gain the approval of people or leaders. If you actually care about your moral well-being, you would see the wisdom behind the language and the parables. Religion is corrupt and it controls and demands with codified processes that is an inescapable problem for autonomy, but it doesn't suddenly mean that what it may have originally espoused and the reasoning behind it's existence as also completely wrong. There is no need to burn the Bible. — TimeLine
Some laws contained in the old testament are unequivocally barbaric. Do you disagree? — VagabondSpectre
How about you show you understand what you're talking about and show that it makes sense by submitting the argument I've requested you to submit. That's "talking". If you have no argument for your statement, then I'll casually brush it aside for the unsubstantiated postulate that it is. — VagabondSpectre
You might think it's wise to emotionally submit to the wisdom of the parables, just like how Abraham emotionally submitted to the will of god and was prepared to murder his own son, but that's not moral well-being. That's closer to Stockholm syndrome than it is moral enlightenment. — VagabondSpectre
Yes, but it is up to you to figure out the analogy behind it, how it corresponds both historically and culturally, its parabolic symbolism to broader concepts and that can only be done when you don't follow by refraining from conforming to anything material including other people and cultures; when you just read for the sake of learning. That is the point of reason and how to transcend to a rational, autonomous being, which is only possible without such attachments and yet, conscious of the fact that we need to attach ourselves to something in order to stimulate our capacity to progress epistemically, the point of wisdom is to attach yourself to God - the omnipresent, the greatest good, hence your conscience and why the Bible says God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth - and your attempt to reach him so to speak is your will to consistently progress towards reaching a better understanding of yourself. You can't do that if you follow people and that includes religion, which is what happens after morality before becoming corrupted. — TimeLine
Moral consciousness, your conscience, love, is what leads to authentic happiness and peace forever, 'eternally' rather than being temporarily yet consistently stimulated by base pleasures. When you see your own mistakes and seek to improve yourself - hence being honest - there is no greater happiness. But righteousness is not all fluffy bunny feet stuff, it isn't walking around talking and pretending your are a nice person when you produce and do absolutely nothing, or as Solomon says for the lips of an adulterous woman drop (as) an honeycomb, and her mouth [is] smoother than oil as liars sweet-talk their way by deceiving you into thinking they are good people via tact, but it is fighting injustice, stopping the pain and anguish that others experience as much as it is taking care of yourself and enjoying the feelings that autonomy produces — TimeLine
That is the point, we are selective with what we choose to believe. Heidegger is a douche. Does it mean that everything that he writes is unworthy of study? If you choose to hate the bible because you have some vendetta against religion, no matter how much one can exemplify the benefits of the wisdom - that is, the stories used through parables to help you appreciate your own moral fibre - you will refuse to acknowledge it. If you are going to be selectively stubborn, fine, but the reality is that you are not interpreting the scriptures, you are only hating the interpretations made by others. — TimeLine
I am. You not only prove that you know nothing about Kant but that you are also painfully trying to mimic my methods of expressing the disillusionment to your so-called argument. Now run along and get your own personality. — TimeLine
Moron. — TimeLine
You made a statement, "religion leads to morality". — VagabondSpectre
I don't hate religion or the bible — VagabondSpectre
...these ancient and largely barbarous fairy tales — VagabondSpectre
So you think that I'm trying to mimic your missing argument (which you're now telling me is that i have no argument) by asking you to submit your missing argument? — VagabondSpectre
When I was a child I might have responded to such a veiled threat by acquiescing to your world view, but now that I've actually experienced life I know it's only an inexperienced mind that could possibly assent to it, or else an unrobust one seeking emotional refuge. — VagabondSpectre
I never said that. Hence the point of why it is impossible talking to you, just as much as it is impossible having a philosophical conversation with a drunkard. I said it is morality that leads to religion before it becomes corrupted by people, by codified rules and other institutional processes, infiltrated by the transferral of pagan rituals. But that has nothing to do with the bible. The statement that morality inevitably leads to religion is Kantian, hence the 'you know nothing about Kant' point. — TimeLine
Let me pace it down slower for you because clearly you are way too slow on the uptake. I agree that one should not follow a religion, but I don't agree that has anything to do with our ability to interpret the scriptures independent of religious influence. Jesus was a good guy. You are a moron. — TimeLine
You choose to read what you want, not what is actually being said and the language, tone, and attitude is so profoundly tiresome that I am almost confident that I could have a greater intellectual conversation with a bottle of tomato sauce — TimeLine
You say:
I don't hate religion or the bible — VagabondSpectre
Before saying:
...these ancient and largely barbarous fairy tales — VagabondSpectre
That's just awkward. :-} — TimeLine
Nope. Yet again, you fail to distinguish the difference between a hole in the ground and your nose. — TimeLine
That explains a lot about why you are so angry. And one who has actually experienced life wouldn't chuck a childish fit and intentionally misinterpret what I say to suit his own ridiculous agenda. — TimeLine
What you call bastardization of Jesus' intentions I call what I was taught growing up. Like it or not pastors and preachers out there interpreting scripture at large do often make the interpretations which I'm specifically attacking. — VagabondSpectre
I know you are but what am I? Teehee! — VagabondSpectre
...but it's vastly removed from mainstream religion and the original point I happen to be ridiculing. — VagabondSpectre
The religious ideas I address aren't the "hell is a metaphor" variety. — VagabondSpectre
I write — TimeLine
I am telling you — TimeLine
I am — TimeLine
I am saying — TimeLine
I stand — TimeLine
that I said — TimeLine
I want — TimeLine
I don't mean — TimeLine
my interpretation — TimeLine
I am — TimeLine
I am — TimeLine
honest to myself — TimeLine
I practice — TimeLine
my will — TimeLine
want me — TimeLine
I am afraid I will disappoint — TimeLine
I couldn't give a toss — TimeLine
I have transcended — TimeLine
impossible to talk to you — TimeLine
you fail — TimeLine
No arguments where made at all. — TimeLine
You are merely projecting what you are doing, which is berating me. That is called trolling. — TimeLine
No, not quite. I'm not trolling until I post a star trek image, which subconsciously stirs Baden from his primordial sleep so that he can then delete it immediately >:O — Heister Eggcart
So, you are doing this intentionally. You are bitter about a post being deleted by Baden and now you are taking it out on me. Get your thumb out of your mouth. — TimeLine
At least Augustino is trying to defend religious institutions by being selectively obnoxious. — TimeLine
No, Augustino was using the stock standard argumentum ad hominem by attacking me with the intention of dissuading the audience of my comments — TimeLine
Turn the other cheek, even if they punch you in the face... :D — TimeLine
you prefer to be mindless enough to follow because it takes the responsibility away from you, your levels of maturity are exemplified here. — TimeLine
Projection much? — TimeLine
Some people tell you exactly how you should think of them! >:OYou are a troll and I am done wasting my time with you. — TimeLine
Yes, I recognise my inferiority and therefore hand the burden of responsibility over to you. It is after all those who are superior who should carry a greater burden than those who are inferior and mindless.you prefer to be mindless enough to follow because it takes the responsibility away from you, your levels of maturity are exemplified here. — TimeLine
The absolute core is Love.What do you take to be the core of Jesus' teachings? Please site a verse or two to support your view. — Bitter Crank
And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him,Which is the first commandment of all?
And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.
Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.
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