another at times where we are similar and same- which, is all the time within the bubble from a bubbled perspective.like — Nagel
I've always found Nagel's intuition pump (Dennett) "what is it like to be a bat" to be incoherent. The problematic "like to be" presupposes a comparison, but to what? No one, Nagel or any of us, can aptly say what it is "like to be" a human being since each one of us only has a single data-point: an individual human being, like an individual bat, does not "know" what it is like to be other than what s/he, or it, is, so there's no comparison, or differentiation, from the inside-out, so to speak. — 180 Proof
Nothing is more clear to me than what it is like to eat an apple while I'm eating an apple. — Hanover
But the subject is never something amenable to objective description or analysis, for the very good reason that it's not an object. — Wayfarer
Personally I have no idea what it means to be 'like' me. — Tom Storm
I'm immediately turned off any post mentioning "subject", "subjectivity", or "objectivity". Too much baggage. — Banno
Aristotle uses the word "subject" only in the context of grammar. — Jackson
Accodiringly I’ll do you the courtesy of not answering your question. — Wayfarer
The experience of being you holisticaly is to have the various individual experiences of being you. — Hanover
To be like something for which I have no reference, though, is impossible, like being a bat. — Hanover
Bat
At evening, sitting on this terrace,
When the sun from the west, beyond Pisa, beyond the mountains of Carrara
Departs, and the world is taken by surprise ...
When the tired flower of Florence is in gloom beneath the glowing
Brown hills surrounding ...
When under the arches of the Ponte Vecchio
A green light enters against stream, flush from the west,
Against the current of obscure Arno ...
Look up, and you see things flying
Between the day and the night;
Swallows with spools of dark thread sewing the shadows together.
A circle swoop, and a quick parabola under the bridge arches
Where light pushes through;
A sudden turning upon itself of a thing in the air.
A dip to the water.
And you think:
"The swallows are flying so late!"
Swallows?
Dark air-life looping
Yet missing the pure loop ...
A twitch, a twitter, an elastic shudder in flight
And serrated wings against the sky,
Like a glove, a black glove thrown up at the light,
And falling back.
Never swallows!
Bats!
The swallows are gone.
At a wavering instant the swallows gave way to bats
By the Ponte Vecchio ...
Changing guard.
Bats, and an uneasy creeping in one's scalp
As the bats swoop overhead!
Flying madly.
Pipistrello!
Black piper on an infinitesimal pipe.
Little lumps that fly in air and have voices indefinite, wildly vindictive;
Wings like bits of umbrella.
Bats!
Creatures that hang themselves up like an old rag, to sleep;
And disgustingly upside down.
Hanging upside down like rows of disgusting old rags
And grinning in their sleep.
Bats!
In China the bat is symbol for happiness.
Not for me! — D. H Lawrence
It remains true that the word 'quale' can be used. — ZzzoneiroCosm
No, my friend, for the reason that "subjective experiences" are not objective; to require that subjectivity be described objectively is a category mistake, which is why (many philosophers and almost all cognitive neuroscientists consider) Chalmer's "Hard Problem" a pseudo-problem — 180 Proof
That, as explanations go, is not the best. Made me laugh, though. — Banno
But one can easily imagine what it would be like to fly at night using sound to "see". So that does not seem right. — Banno
It has a use - it can be used - so what's the big deal? — ZzzoneiroCosm
The big deal is that folk are mislead by misused language. — Banno
Because it is associated with an idealist or anti-realist metaphysics that I reject. That's the point. — Banno
But the game can be played.
If you reject the game of chess, you just stop playing it. You don't get on a soapbox about it - unless you're a very odd sort of fanatic. — ZzzoneiroCosm
What is this "game?" — Jackson
Language games a la Wittgenstein. Banno is the forum expert on it. It's just a sideshow to me. — ZzzoneiroCosm
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