It can all too easily grab hold of the adverb "in" which changes the meaning completely. Instead of "I believe" something to be true, it says I believe IN Love or in Democracy or some such which has a totally different meaning. — Ken Edwards
It does not change the meaning. To "believe in" something as in believing in love is the same as saying you believe "love exists" to be true. To believe in something is to believe that it exists, or to have the belief that it exists. Just as hammering requires a hammer, believing requires a belief.Also its noun form: "Belief" has a completely changed meaning. The noun, "Belief", might be said to be one of the results or one of the outcomes of believing something to be true. — Ken Edwards
I carefully avoid believing anything at all. — Ken Edwards
Is this not an expression of what you believe about believing, that is is better to avoid believing?
To believe is used in distinction from to know. What I believe may turn out to be wrong. It expresses a tenuousness, a lack of certainty. It differs from a claim of knowledge.
It is when this distinction is not made, when one equates believing with being absolutely, indubitably certainty, that believing becomes dangerous. — Fooloso4
First, you say that believing expresses uncertainty and knowing expresses certainty, but then say that believing can express certainty. — praxis
There is also the fact that what we know can turn out to be wrong, and in those cases are we actually only believing when we think that we're knowing? — praxis
First, you say that believing expresses uncertainty and knowing expresses certainty, but then say that believing can express certainty.
— praxis
The latter is the result of the failure to make the distiction of the former. — Fooloso4
If we're uncertain about something do we need to confirm this uncertainty, or 'hold it to be true', to ourselves? — praxis
The expression of belief is nothing more than a sign of solidarity with fellow "believers" ... — praxis
... and a shared uncertainty is a leash, allowing yourself to be led like a dog. — praxis
What does it mean to confirm one's uncertainty? Confirm that you are uncertain? Attempt to eliminate the uncertainty? There are many things about which I am uncertain for which the uncertainty cannot be eliminated. Some of those things seem to be more likely to be true than others. — Fooloso4
Mad stuff, insane stuff. To the effect that fully justified them waging war and killing millions of people.
They had firmly Believed that it was morally wrong for them Not to kill. — Ken Edwards
How can you build who you are without some kind of foundational beliefs? — universeness
Sure, that's just a projection of what I stated. If you have your own foundational beliefs established within then you can start to try to figure out others using that reference. I am not suggesting your own foundations should be utterly chiseled in stone but you have to have some strength in your foundations.Rather, I think the question is how can you build who we are without some kind of foundational beliefs. — praxis
Sure, that's just a projection of what I stated. If you have your own foundational beliefs established within then you can start to try to figure out others using that reference. I am not suggesting your own foundations should be utterly chiseled in stone but you have to have some strength in your foundations. — universeness
If I accept or trust or think or estimate or conclude or predict that you're telling the truth does that mean that I believe (hold to be true) you're telling the truth? — praxis
There are thousands of pros out there who spend millions of hours a day and millions of dollars a day trying to concoct clever, attention grabbing, truthful sounding lies or half lies that you and I and even Banno can be tricked into beleiving and then they get money out of us or power over us or maybe just enjoy fucking us over. They are good at it, they are pros. — Ken Edwards
There is no way I could have the time or the ability to examen the thousands of such dangerous falshoods that are aimed my way.
I’m suggesting that it’s not a personal foundation but a group foundation. We don’t need to believe ourselves, do we??? — praxis
Should I stop another from killing someone because I BELIEVE they are not justified in doing so or help them.
No, I can't stop people from doing things because I am 97 years old and I can't walk — Ken Edwards
I appreciate what you mean but it's no different from your 'when I spoke to some of the German prisoners' memory. Did you know for sure that the comments expressed were supported by every prisoner in that group? It's like that biblical story about sodom and gomorrah. I mean really, that idiotic angel could not find any decent folks at all in either city! I for one, don't believe that biblical BS.This is heavy stuff. I would have to know you very, very well along with your family and friends over a long period of time in order to be sure that you, yourself, were not delusional — Ken Edwards
I never knew I was building me when I grew up. That was 90 some years ago and I don't remember. But I like the sound of the words. — Ken Edwards
I am an American and, like most Americans, I got lots and lots and lots of foundational beliefs. I got foundational beliefs I aint even used yet — Ken Edwards
I, personally hate and despise the action of "believing" — Ken Edwards
But I still can't figure out how we managed to get from the meaning of a single word to carrots and mice.
Please explain. — Ken Edwards
Sitting there in Germany amid the ruins listening to these horrors I became an enemy of believing, not only rational believing but any believing. — Ken Edwards
Example: "Belgiums are baby killers and should be punished". Once, long ago, those words were believed my millions. Evil words, sinful words. Death words. — Ken Edwards
Still trying to work out who those millions were, and why "Belgiums", especially considering that Belgium is actually a country. :chin: — Wayfarer
The goal of the listener is typically to understand what was said by the speaker, not to make up its own meaning to the words spoken by someone else.You say, To "believe in" something as in believing in love is the same as saying you believe "love exists" to be true."
It does not Say that love exists. It might or might not imply it depending entirely on the interpretation by the listener which is something else entirely.. — Ken Edwards
Exactly. This whole time Mr. Edward's has been telling us what he believes to be the case. He could be wrong. So if he is wrong that means he cant be describing what actually is the case, but what he believes to be the case. Is Mr. Edward's never wrong?I carefully avoid believing anything at all.
— Ken Edwards
Is this not an expression of what you believe about believing, that is is better to avoid believing? — Fooloso4
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