But power exhausts itself in what it takes power over and is replaced by a new trajectory of will to power.A given Will to power cannot be separated from the value system that it posits, and that is serially overcome by a wholly different value system ad infinitum( eternal return of the same). This is different from a ‘growth’ oriented notion of empowerment and optimal potential. — Joshs

The way I read Nietzsche's idea of will to power is in terms of overcoming. I'm not sure what you mean by "growth", but for me growth in any spiritual sense logically consists in overcoming (weaknesses, fixations, prejudices, delusions, etc). I have the impression from previous reading that Nietzsche aligns himself with Aristotle's notion of eudamonia, "good spirit" or "flourishing", but I don't have time to search for a reference for that.

The underlying idea? That the bungled and the botched are to be the objects of derision? That's not a sentiment that deserves sympathy. — Banno

Now you've switched the conversation: we were referring to the 'ape' trope, not the 'bungled and botched' trope. In any case others have pointed out that the latter case is very much open to interpretation. But I doubt you have much will to overcome your prejudices when it comes to Nietzsche (or Heidegger).

Nietzsche aligns himself with Aristotle's notion of eudamonia, "good spirit" or "flourishing", but I don't have time to search for a reference for that. — Janus

I think you are correct. Though, I do not think Nietzsche discusses Aristotle.

I have the impression from previous reading that Nietzsche aligns himself with Aristotle's notion of eudamonia, "good spirit" or "flourishing", — Janus

Yes, and he provided such a stellar example of that.

I think you are correct. Though, I do not think Nietzsche discusses Aristotle. — Jackson

You're probably right. I think he disagreed with Aristotle's reasons for considering Tragedy to be the highest from of drama, even though agreeing with the assessment.That may have been about the extent of his explicit discussion of Aristotle.

Yes, and he provided such a stellar example of that. — Wayfarer

I don't know what about Nietzsche you are referring to: can you explain?

Never mind, I was being sarcastic, which I ought not to do.

Tragedy to be the highest from of drama, even though agreeing with the assessment. — Janus

Aristotle's understanding of tragedy is quite insightful. Nietzsche misread Aristotle's notion of pity as a Christian concept.

Aristotle's understanding of tragedy is quite insightful. Nietzsche misread Aristotle's notion of pity as a Christian concept. — Jackson

OK, I haven't read much of Aristotle's work regarding tragedy, and I haven't read Birth of Tragedy for many years, so I'll have to take your word for that.

OK, I haven't read much of Aristotle's work regarding tragedy, and I haven't read Birth of Tragedy for many years, so I'll have to take your word for that. — Janus

Fair enough.

An interesting approach to the superman was advocated by FM-2030. As one of the prominent figures in the transhuman movement, a term coined by Julian Huxley (brother of Aldous, "Brave New World") he advocated for a science-based superman.

Of course one could ask if a transrans evolves. Where will it stop? What will the ultimate singularity look like? A superdooper trans?

So, man is a synonym for superape!

So an übermensch (superman) is just a super-duper ape!

"I'm an ape, are you Bishop?" - Richard Dawkins

"I'm not,  definitely I'm not. I'm special, made in the image of God, in the creative mind of God, creative as God who made me. That's the difference between the ape and me." - Bishop Boniface Adoyo

"Well, I'm an ape, I'm an African ape and I'm very proud to be an African ape and so should you be." -Richard Dawkins

Friedrich Nietzsche... :snicker:

So, man is a synonym for superape! — Agent Smith

Right.

Humans are apes that do physics, metaphysics, abstract art, jazz, epic poetry, space exploration, mystical ecstasy...

No matter how morally indignant the philosimians get, facts are facts, there is no equivalency.

Humankind is superapekind.

Humankind is superapekind. — ZzzoneiroCosm

Butbutbut---say the philosimians - but look: world war, torture, pedophilia, nukes, rape, self- and ecological destruction, etc... *

No one is claiming a moral - or for that matter, a physical - superiority or ascent. The ascent is intellectual. And - for those who give a damn - an ascent of spiritual possibility.



*See Erich Fromm's "The Anatomy of Human Destructiveness" for evidence of the circumstantial basis for human heinousness.

Humans are apes that do physics, metaphysics, abstract art, jazz, epic poetry, space exploration, mystical ecstasy...

No matter how morally indignant the philosimians get, facts are facts, there is no equivalency.

Humankind is superapekind. — ZzzoneiroCosm

In man's evolution he's created the city
And the motor traffic rumble
But give me half a chance and I'd be taking off my clothes
And living in the jungle
'Cause the only time that I feel at ease
Is swinging up and down in the coconut trees
Oh what a life of luxury to be like an apeman
(Apeman, Ray Davies and the Kinks)

The Jungle: Eden for ticks and mosquitos. But in light of our technological ascent, still an option for the superape.

:up: