@180 Proof @MAYAEL

Do you know the mysterious phenomenon known as Jerusalem Syndrome?

As per Wikipedia, some (susceptible) folks develop the Messiah complex aftet/during a visit to the holy city. Please visit Wikipedia for details.

There's something going on in that region of the world - Egypt to Mecca - and my hunch is there's an as of yet undiscovered "force" that affects the (koff koff) chosen ones and induces religious experiences in 'em. Moses, Jesus and Mohammed are the 3 well-documented cases of Jerusalem Syndrome. We need to send a team of scientists and have them do a thorough study of the Levant and surrounding areas for this unknown factor/force. :grin:

We'll finally be able to answer Christopher Hitchens' query: Why would God choose a bunch of illiterate, iron age folks in a barren desert to reveal himself to?

Maybe it's just friggin too hot to think straight! :lol: Heat-induced delusions! Hyperthermia lunacy.

no they only think that it brings them some form of enlightenment is all it does is impress them kind of like a kid on a roller coaster ride — MAYAEL

They do that to many indeed. As also the Messiah syndrome that you mentioned at another post.
I have noticed myself many times to think things when I m high and considered them wonderful but I also know that I should rethink them when I m totally sober. Well I have to tell you most of them are foolish cliche things. But well though there are a few that I considered them really interesting even afterwards. They might aren't either but wtf you got what I mean. Hahaha
So indeed it is a thick line between inspiration and bullshit.

Anyway the thing is that the majority gets influenced by drugs with the way you describe. But as in every similar case, at the end everything is relative. There were and are actually people that sometimes get high inspirations by the function of their mind, when they are onto drugs.

We can't deny that. There are numerous examples of artists or even scientists at the past. Even Silicon Valley employees openly admitted using micro amounts of LSD. But yes they aren't many and for sure not the majority.

and the reason I confidently say this is because you can reach the same knowledge and the same enlightenment without any narcotics — MAYAEL

For sure you can. No doubt about that. Just to a few a mental boost from using drugs works great sometimes.But taking drugs as to reach enlightenment isn't a requirement at all. That is sure thing.

the downside is though is that a real Tower builder can't convey to these regular non-tower building people what is necessary in order to spot authenticity from fake because unfortunately the only way to know is to become a tower builder by building your own tower hence why real Tower builders don't have pamphlets — MAYAEL

Oh man no offense here I hope, but damn that tower example sounded like you were hallucinating. It had so much "tower things" inside that fucked my brain. Hahaha. But I got your point.

you can reach the same knowledge and the same enlightenment without any narcotics — MAYAEL

Then why bother building a stupid Tower? :lol:

build one and find out

I yes I've heard of it infact it is a common thing from what my friends that live in tel Aviv have told me ,

They said people will take a 20$ ride to all the popular spots then on the way back say they just had some revelation from God that they are God and then the next day you will see them out by one of the tourist spots trying to evangelize everybody.

I chalk it up to the sweet potato phenomenon. I don't know if that's actually what it's called or not in fact I think it's actually called morphogenesis and basically in a nutshell people do a pattern in an action throughout history and time

and what that seems to do is create a kind of groove in this kind of shared psychological realm where other humans can then pick that same habit up faster and easier without having ever met the people before them that had done the action or thing and this is observable in all types of mammals from what I've been told so that's my blaming donkey if you're looking for something to whip

build one and find out — MAYAEL

Why would I want to do that exactly?

Why would I want to do that exactly? — praxis

As to have the illusion that you are a king. Though we have to admit, if you are after that illusion it's easier, quicker and much cheaper to do drugs! Hahaha

well build one and see

Do drugs, or can drugs, engender a frame of mind which is conducive to insight, or even enlightenment? — hypericin

Yes. But the insights tend to be a proverb of some kind — cliched; enlightenment is possible in that drugs can allow you to see things slightly (or greatly) askew, but this is temporary.

Honestly, marijuana, MDMA and mushrooms have provided me with moments of clarity and realization, even of wisdom. But so has meditation, being in love, fasting, and walking in the woods.

What matters, in the end, is what you do— not just on special occasions, but over the long run in your daily life. If you can only be nice to people or have fun when taking some kind of substance, for example, then I would find that problematic. If you take a substance in moderation and it provides a needed reminder of what matters in life, great. We can’t always achieve that “naturally.”

well build one and see — MAYAEL

You go on a five paragraph diatribe about Towers and now you can’t say anything about the value, or curse, of them? WTF?!

You think it's a habit? I'm more inclined to believe it's copycat. Oh well, different strokes for different folks, oui monsieur/mademoiselle?

Most interesting. — Ms. Marple

It's not as simple as taking any old drug in any old way. Doing it like that is hit or miss, and usually more miss. When i was younger i was a walking chemistry experiment. I've done almost every drug at one point or another. It wasn't about fun and parties. I was curious and interested in everything including my own mind, and i figured that i can understand my mind better if i experiment with it by disturbing it. It's been said that we swim in the mind like fish swim in the water, we don't have an external reference to compare it to. A fish that's never been out of the water would conceivably not even be aware of water, but if you disturb it by removing it from it's watery environment it quickly knows there is something about water. That fish just got wiser. In the same way by disturbing my own mind temporarily with a drug i can begin to compare the differences with and without the drug.

I learned early on that to get the most out of my drug experience in the context of my goal i had to pay close attention to my set, and setting, and dosage (Timothy Leary). Shamans and medicine men since early on had formulated procedures and rituals that would prepare them for the "sacrament". What i chose to do was combine the drug with meditation. The point of meditation (emptiness meditation) was to settle the mind in order to observe deeply it's natural state. Isolated and hermetically sealed away from external influences. Once i was able to achieve a reasonable baseline state (not easy), i began to test different drugs. I would then sit calmly and observe what it did to me. I wouldn't try to understand it while in it, i would wait to think about it after the drug wore off.

To do this i practiced contemplation (not meditation). I found that if i just had the intention to understand, and i didn't stress out about it, then my mind while sober would begin to make suggestions for what i wanted to know. It wasn't always immediate, many times it would take days, weeks, and even years. Having the experience was enough to get my unconscious mind working, as long as i had sincere interest. Most of the insight or "enlightenment" that i received from doing this was not so much about physics or history, or something external like that, it was a personal self-knowledge of how i work internally. It wasn't usually something i could really right down, or prove to another person. It wasn't that type of knowledge. It was knowledge tailored to me alone, but the effect it had on my i thinking made me a better person eventually. It helped me not just understand myself better but other people too. Because i had a window into my fundamental internal processes, i began to see intimations of the same processes outside myself. In other people, society, history, nature.. in the sober state i began to feel ultra connected to everything. I began to recognize and even feel myself in other people, animals, bugs, the Earth, the universe.. So now i know that the I in me is the same I in you who are reading this, and that's just one of the few things i actually can say about this topic. Anything else would probably sound even more ridiculous, especially to the uninitiated.

“Know thyself, and thou shalt know the universe and God.” - Temple of Apollo at Delphi

It's not as simple as taking any old drug in any old way. — punos

:up:

As to have the illusion that you are a king. — dimosthenis

:brow:

if I did then there would be no need for you to build it like I previously explained, I bet your teachers loved your not paying attention azz in school huh?

well no I wouldn't say it's a monkey see monkey do kind of a situation because morphogenesis doesn't require the mammal having any knowledge of the thing or the task at all for it to still improve the new groups ability to complete the task
It's as if there is a force that subconsciously connects all mammals and allows us to share a kind of "intuition" for lack of a better word.

Hmmmm...

You get half a vote from me for your thesis.

real Tower builders don't have pamphlets — MAYAEL

Oh, I get it now, if you had anything honest to say your little tower would fall like a card house.

Do drugs, or can drugs, engender a frame of mind which is conducive to insight, or even enlightenment? — hypericin

Depends on what one believes "enlightenment" is.

Wouldn't it be an error to ascribe privileged status to the sober state of mind?

Aren't both the sober and high states, both simply states, and so coequal?

And so why should I privilege my sober evaluation of my high thoughts?

In that case, it makes no difference whether one is enlightened or not; in which case, why bother.

Hey brat a little tip, try showing some kind of maturity and mutual respect that way you can get the other person to actually have a conversation with you so that you might actually learn something for a change, the keyboard has been saving the smart mouth a brats for almost 30yrs now so it's to be expected, is all I ask is that you try to talk to others over the internet the same way your mother makes you talk to people in real life , if you keep talking like a little shithead you will end up creating a bad habit and might accidently smart off in real life and get a spanking for it. Just trying to help you but take it or leave it IDGF

:brow:

Killing two birds with one stone, eh? Good job! I don't know about myself but I'm certain praxis doesn't deserve such vitriol!

Good day monsieur/mademoiselle.

a half a point is better then nothing! , I wonder how many pine points or who's line is it anyways points I can get with it? We need a forX for points lol

my phone apparently saved the comment I tried to post last night but I didn't have service so it apparently didn't post and so today I went to reply to that little shit head and I didn't see the tag for you on there so I edited it soon as it posted but apparently not fast enough but that wasn't meant for you in any way shape or form my apologies

a half a point is better then nothing! , I wonder how many pine points or who's line is it anyways points I can get with it? We need a forX for points lol — MAYAEL

You get points for exploring uncharted territory. :smile:

my phone apparently saved the comment I tried to post last night but I didn't have service so it apparently didn't post and so today I went to reply to that little shit head and I didn't see the tag for you on there so I edited it soon as it posted but apparently not fast enough but that wasn't meant for you in any way shape or form my apologies — MAYAEL

:ok:

I was not taking praxi's history into consideration I was simply responding to his negitive smart ass comment because the world has enough negative fighting going on everywhere and I didn't come here for that crap I came here to have a productive conversation and not feed dopamine to a narcissist, I'm sure he's a nice guy at times just like we all can be .

I was not taking praxi's history into consideration I was simply responding to his negitive smart ass comment because the world has enough negative fighting going on everywhere and I didn't come here for that crap I came here to have a productive conversation and not feed dopamine to a narcissist, I'm sure he's a nice guy at times just like we all can be . — MAYAEL

Very balanced analysis! Gold star for you!

Hey brat a little tip, try showing some kind of maturity and mutual respect that way you can get the other person to actually have a conversation with you so that you might actually learn something for a change, the keyboard has been saving the smart mouth a brats for almost 30yrs now so it's to be expected, is all I ask is that you try to talk to others over the internet the same way your mother makes you talk to people in real life , if you keep talking like a little shithead you will end up creating a bad habit and might accidently smart off in real life and get a spanking for it. Just trying to help you but take it or leave it IDGF — MAYAEL

I suppose this means that you’re not going to tell me about your little tower now. :sad:

I suppose this means that you’re not going to tell me about your little tower now. :sad: — "praxis

:snicker: Absit iniuria MAYAEL.

It had so much "tower things" inside that fucked my brain. — dimosthenis9

:snicker: Absit iniuria MAYAEL