How is human existence "all for nothing"? My wife and children's and friends' existence is not all for nothing. Their existence everything to me, and if one's existence is everything to just one, then their existence cannot be all for nothing. — Harry Hindu

I'll put you down for "I don't understand the question."

Out of interest how do you arrive at a pointlessness of existence?

Out of interest how do you arrive at a pointlessness of existence? — Tom Storm

No offense, but I was looking for the thoughts of people who are familiar with this particular issue.

Life is, always and by its very nature, pointless.

A point is a valued end and since we humans are agents, it makes sense for us to want our acts, efforts, projects, and enterprises to have a point. Valued ends provide justifying reasons for our acts, efforts, projects, and enterprises. Ends lie separate from the acts and enterprises for which they provide a point (e.g., you build a hut because you value the shelter provided by the hut and you value the shelter because you value yourself and others). Since there can be no end external to one's entire life, since one's life includes all of one's ends, life as a whole cannot have a point. This doesn't mean that the acts, efforts or projects within a life can't have a point.... But life as a whole, which is a separate effort and enterprise of its own, cannot.

Since we live our lives and structure our living-a-human-life efforts both in parts and as a whole, it is fitting to be sad to recognize that bothering to live is pointless.

No offense, but I was looking for the thoughts of people who are familiar with this particular issue. — Tate

I am very familiar with the various reasons why people hold to this. I am also an atheist. I am asking why you have taken this view. If you wish not to discuss it, fine.

it is fitting to be sad to recognize that bothering to live is pointless. — Chisholm

Never understood why it needs to be 'sad'.

Since there can be no end external to one's entire life, since one's life includes all of one's ends, life as a whole cannot have a point — Chisholm

I've always taken the view that living life is the point. Making meaning. Why do we need a foundational guarantee for purpose?

I'll put you down for "I don't understand the question." — Tate

No offense, but I was looking for the thoughts of people who are familiar with this particular issue. — Tate

We are familiar with the issue. It's just we've solved the issue. It's not our problem you don't like, or understand, the solution. If you can't answer my question, then maybe you should put yourself down as not understanding the question or the issue. It sounds like you're regurgitating a mass delusion that human existence is meaningless.

It sounds like you're regurgitating a mass delusion that human existence is meaningless. — Harry Hindu

To be fair, I think the question refers to there being no innate meaning to the universe.

Meaning isn't found. Meaning is use. Give your existence a use.

I'm going to do some weeding.

:up:

The Universe doesn't hand out meaningfulness. It just is, and we are part of it. Though considerable effort over time I have come to the conclusion that life is meaningless, but that isn't a terrible thing, It means that we can provide a measure of meaning in our own lives--by doing meaningful, as Banno said.

We are here for a short time; some as little as 15 minutes, others as many as 115 years. As we age and get smarter, there is less time left to exist. Time is shorter. At 75, I figure the end of my life is maybe just around this or the next corner.

I'm happier now than I have ever been. I'm busy, I'm reading a lot of history. I listen to great music on the radio and internet. There's the small house and weedy lawn to look after.

Death, like an over-flowing stream
Sweeps us away; our life is but a dream,
an empty tale, a morning flower
cut down and withered in an hour.

The Universe doesn't hand out meaningfulness. It just is, and we are part of it. — Bitter Crank

Agree.

I've always taken the view that living life is the point. Making meaning. Why do we need a foundational guarantee for purpose? — Tom Storm

:fire:

:100:

:smirk:

:up:

I didn't notice that you had already made the point. :clap:

it makes sense for us to want our acts, efforts, projects, and enterprises to have a point. — Chisholm

Our "acts, efforts, projects and enterprises" do have points, though. Is it necessary that there should be some absolute point over and above those relative points in order for those relative points to be pointful?

Pollyanna!

Get with the times, man. The kids know there's no point to it all. They're joy-riding hotrods and smoking filterless cigarettes.

The question never seems to occur to the poor. I guess they’re too busy to worry about it.

But I suppose a less flippant answer might reference Karl Durkheim’s ‘anomie’ - the sense of drift, meaninglessness and absence of purpose that he posits is characteristic of modern cultures on a large scale. It’s almost like we evolved through thousands of generations of incredibly difficult lives to the point where we’ve forgotten why. Perhaps if we had recall of how hard life was for all of those tens of thousands of years we’d be less inclined to take the life we now have for granted.

The Universe doesn't hand out meaningfulness. It just is, and we are part of it. Though considerable effort over time I have come to the conclusion that life is meaningless, but that isn't a terrible thing, It means that we can provide a measure of meaning in our own lives--by doing meaningful, as Banno said.

We are here for a short time; some as little as 15 minutes, others as many as 115 years. As we age and get smarter, there is less time left to exist. Time is shorter. At 75, I figure the end of my life is maybe just around this or the next corner.

I'm happier now than I have ever been. I'm busy, I'm reading a lot of history. I listen to great music on the radio and internet. There's the small house and weedy lawn to look after.

Death, like an over-flowing stream
Sweeps us away; our life is but a dream,
an empty tale, a morning flower
cut down and withered in an hour. — Bitter Crank

I agree. Embracing pointlessness brings your attention into the pointless Now. A person might be resistant to doing that if the Now is a painful wasteland. You have to make Now into a blooming garden, which you won't do if you're focused on an external purpose.

A point is a valued end and since we humans are agents, it makes sense for us to want our acts, efforts, projects, and enterprises to have a point. Valued ends provide justifying reasons for our acts, efforts, projects, and enterprises. Ends lie separate from the acts and enterprises for which they provide a point (e.g., you build a hut because you value the shelter provided by the hut and you value the shelter because you value yourself and others). Since there can be no end external to one's entire life, since one's life includes all of one's ends, life as a whole cannot have a point. This doesn't mean that the acts, efforts or projects within a life can't have a point.... But life as a whole, which is a separate effort and enterprise of its own, cannot.

Since we live our lives and structure our living-a-human-life efforts both in parts and as a whole, it is fitting to be sad to recognize that bothering to live is pointless. — Chisholm

All well said, thank you.

Perhaps nonexistence has a point to it! Any ideas what that is? Wouldn't it be fantabulous if I'm correct? We would all be lining up outside the gallows, oui mes aimes?

This user has been deleted and all their posts removed.

Does the word 'legacy,' hold any importance to you?
What about more emotive terms such as 'standing on the shoulders of giants.'
Or are you more attracted to:

You know dealing with our pain, our suffering, while well-intentioned often only prolongs it. Rather, a slight turn of the mind toward consent may have the effect of extinguishment. — ArielAssante

As long as you aren't lying to yourself. Some things you have to face and deal with.

Does the word 'legacy,' hold any importance to you? — universeness

Not to me, but I know that's the answer that some come to. Brian Green said he went into physics because he came across Camus, I think, as a young person.

To be fair, I think the question refers to there being no innate meaning to the universe. — Jackson

That depends on how you define meaning. If meaning is the relationship between cause and effect then meaning is innate to the universe. In asking what the meaning of life is you are asking what caused life to exist and what purpose (which is just another type of cause as a prediction of future states based on one's goal in the present (final cause)) it has.

Not to me, but I know that's the answer that some come to. Brian Green said he went into physics because he came across Camus, I think, as a young person — Tate

Does this mean that you accept the claim of legacy as the contribution or the basis of 'meaning' to the life of an individual is valid?

If meaning is the relationship between cause and effect then meaning is innate to the universe. — Harry Hindu

I don't think the idea of a meaningful life is based on there being causes and effects.

I'm more interested in why you don't think that, not that you actually don't think it.

So what is it that you think people are asking when they ask what the meaning of life is if not what caused life and what effects the existence of life brings to the world?

I'm more interested in why you don't think that, not that you actually don't think it. — Harry Hindu

I don't see the connection because causes and meaning. A ball falls if I release it from my hand. How is meaning derived from that?

Not every meaning is profound. Most meanings are simple and trivial. In asking what the meaning of life is, the asker tends to believe they are asking a profound question so they expect a profound answer, but this isn't necessarily the case.

Why don't you try answering the question about what people are asking when they are asking what the meaning of life is. What is meaning?

Why don't you try answering the question about what people are asking when they are asking what the meaning of life is. What is meaning? — Harry Hindu

Psychological satisfaction.

I didn't ask why people ask it. I'm asking what they are saying, or assuming, when asking. Again, what is meaning?